Inconsiderate engineering

96bounder wrote:
The automotive industry is by far the worst, The starter on a Toyota v8 definitely a wear item,, you have to remove to intake manifold to replace starter, Ford Free style alternator repair requires removing tire, axle inner fender etc for removal. All manufactures are guilty of this but these to came to mind because I have done both this week.

The builders have no concern for the end user. Just get them out door as fast as possible.

GM's Northstar V8 is the same way - starter is under the intake manifold. And while I'm on the subject, GM wasn't able to manufacture a reliable torque converter control solenoid for decades. On RWD cars it was easy to change the $20 part. Drop the pan, pop the old one out and pop the new one in. On the Northstar-powered, FWD cars you had to drop the transmission out the bottom of the car. A $2,500 job for a $20 part that failed with frightening regularity. I did mine myself and it sucked more than any other automotive repair I've ever attempted.

I think it's more sinister than a lack of concern for the end user. They don't want DIYers messing with their repair revenue stream. BMWs are notorious for this. You can't do much of anything to the newer ones. There's not even dipsticks on them anymore.

But I digress...an RV is a different animal. I don't think manufacturers have any regard for units beyond about 10 years old. They're just not built to cater to owners of vehicles that old that would likely be doing their own repairs. That being said, I wouldn't consider black or grey tanks wear items. Mine appear to be pretty easy to get at. My biggest issue recently was with my fuel tank. That was definitely installed before the RV body. I had to cut a hole in the floor to replace the fuel lines. I can't get at the broken fuel sender because it is directly beneath a wall. I have not had any success in getting the tank out from the bottom. In addition to the straps, there must be something else holding it up.

Other than that, things seem to be pretty accessible both under the "hood" and with regard to the rest of the drivetrain. Though it is 30 years old....

Newmar is one of the better brands (whatever that means), but I've certainly had to fix a few blunders,........ don't get me started.
Of course, I really have little knowledge of how well they have improved since they built mine. I know the price has certainly escalated.
I'm going to keep up with how Country Coach comes along, now that it looks like they might go into production. I used to drool at how well their coaches were engineered, styled, and executed. Their Dynomax chassis, in particular, was most impressive to me. What a package!

The automotive industry is by far the worst, The starter on a Toyota v8 definitely a wear item,, you have to remove to intake manifold to replace starter, Ford Free style alternator repair requires removing tire, axle inner fender etc for removal. All manufactures are guilty of this but these to came to mind because I have done both this week.

The builders have no concern for the end user. Just get them out door as fast as possible.

With my two most recent RVs I have never had a problem with the Grey, Black or Fresh Water Tanks. My current RV is 20 years old and the one before it was 16 years old. I wouldn't consider the grey, black of fresh water tanks as a “wear” item. My expectation as well as most manufacturers is these are permanent fixtures to last the life of the RV. Hence the inconsiderate engineering.

That being said... If I had to replace the tanks on either of these RVs it would have been difficult without removing drivetrain and suspension parts.

The OP mentioned the Gold Wing engine, try replacing the air filter on those GL1800's. Its a 4 hour job for a common maintenance item. 10 minutes on a Harley, similar on almost any other bike.

In the shows that I have seen on the construction of RV's, the tanks are installed from the top and flooring added after they are in place. Not the way we would need to replace them.

Cars, trucks, trailers, motor homes, motorcycles etc. are designed for ease of assembly going down the line to keeps costs down. Not for ease of repairs. Had a leak in my black tank flush line. Told it would be $800 to remove the shower to fix. Nope. Now I just put 2 or three buckets of water down the toilet to ba-whoosh out the tanks. Works fine.

Could not imagine the problems I would have if the shower was removed and replaced.