Motorhome search, where to start

Ryan, i have a short Tiffin ( 34 Foot) and love it. I travel with a group that has every kind of coach out there. High end Beaver, monoco, Tiffin, even Thor. For your budget, I think you could find a 40 foot Phaeton that would do you well. Yes you read alot about Tiffin warranty, but for the number they make, few go back. I know the four in my group have never been back to Red bay

I have a 40', 4 slide '06 Ambassador. The ISC 8.3 Liter engine has been plenty strong enough with 950# of torque for our trips to western Colorado pulling a 4500# Jeep Wrangler Toad. We are crossing 10 to 12000' peaks between Durango and Ouray over the Million Dollar Hwy with no strain. The engine is probably under-rated and pretty much bulletproof...Where are you finding these prices? I would consider the Ambassador a very good buy.
Personally, I looked for a coach with an ISC engine and Allison 3000 as a MINIMUM.

Tiffin has an excellent reputation for service. They have been known to fix many items after the warranty has expired. Bob Tiffin is known to get involved with many customers and is readily available many time.

What I find troubling is so many people know this. We have owned 3 Newmar units since 1999 (2000 DutchStar gasser, '03 Kountry Star DP, '08 Kountry Star DP), all purchased new. In 14 years of ownership we have made exactly 2 trips back to our deal for any type of service at all - the biggest being an air conditioner replacement, after the warranty expired, that Newmar took care of.

My parents Tiffin, in 1 year, did 2 dealer trips, one factory trip, and numerous trips to my garage. Friends of ours has an Allegro Bus that was constently in the shop. The final straw was when the previously factory repaired sidewall cracked again. They are now in a Winnebago gasser and happy. I'd rather have one that didn't need fixing to begin with - but thats me.

One the walls;
Laminated walls are just as the name suggests. A series of materials are layers together with glue sprayed between the layers. It's then (normally) placed in a large bag and pressed together while under vacuum. It is literally glued together. This provides the structal support of the wall.

Hung wall is more typical of house construction. Aluminum studs are placed on 16" centers and welded in place. Headers are used over the doors, windows, and slides. The framing is the structure. It is then covered with a fiberglass sheet, much like sheeting your house.

The big deal is when a laminated wall starts to delaminate there really isn't a way to fix it, and the structal integrity of the MH has been compromised. The damage is usually done before you see the evidence. You can't just re-attached the fiberglass as there is nothing to attach it to. As we all know, glue doesn't like heat or moisture, so too much of either of these will start the delamination process. With most it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. My S-I-L travel trailer started to delaminate in 2 years. Not good.

Hung wall doesn't rely on glue for structure. Years ago there was a post here where a Monaco owner had a leak. He found it by the swishing sound of the water trapped in his wall. His fix was simple; he found the source of the leak and stopped that. He then drilled a small hole in his exterior wall for the water to run out of. He then went inside and opened up a small portion of the interior wall to get at the inner wall. He dried everything out, replaced a small section of insulation, sealed up his drain hole and was done. That simply cannot be done with a laminated wall - take a look at my earlier pictures. We did the best we could but it is what it is.

Side Rad vs Rear;
We've had both, I prefer the side rad, it wouldn't be a deal breaker either way. The rear rad has a much greater tendancy to get dirty, which becomes a maintenance item. They can be cleaned, just something to be aware of. For me the biggest issue is engine access. Obviously a side rad offers easier engine access for belt inspections, oil changes, etc.

A rear rad normally will give you more storage space. Typically a rear rad is cntenstantly running, which uses HP. A side rad is hydraulically driven and only comes on when needed. The hydraulic system will need some occational maintenance, but not much.

The tag axle;
A tag axle is there to increase the weight capacity of the chassis. They also help stablize the ride. But...they also cut into the storage space. On a 40' or shorter unit it's a non-issue. Over 40' and I'd be looking for it.

Good luck with the search.

OK - - I need some explaining on a few topics that came up here.

The first is - what is the issue with Tiffin and their warranty/repair/service. Is it good/bad or non existant?

Second is - what exactly is the difference between laminated walls and framed walls? I do not understand how each is different from each other. It seems like they are both a little of each other. Please help me see the light.

Third is - other than maintance, what are the pros/cons of the side radiator vs rear radiator?

Fourth - What is the purpose of a "tag" axle? Is it worth it, should I be looking for one?

We have changed our mind about the bunkhouse as a requirement for our unit.

I have other questions, but I will leave it at this for now.

Thanks again for the information, what a wealth of knowledge and experience. Its tremendous.

Take care,

I am in my fifth year with an 2006 Holiday Ambassador 4 slide coach. Except for a pesky roof leak it has been very reliable. My search criterion was for something easy to sell when I was done, hence the 4 slide 40' model.
I am somewhat partial to the Cummins line of engines. I wanted AT LEAST a Cummins ISC (8.3liter)and NOT the smaller ISB (5.9 to 6.7 Liter). The other requirement was the transmission-I wanted AT LEAST the Allison 3000 series rather than the Allison 1000, 1500, 2000, etc.I personnally wouldn't consider a MAX FORCE engine supplied with some smaller coachs.

I have made 5 trips to Ouray, Colorado so far pulling a 4000+ # jeep and I find the power to be quite adequate going over 12000+ foot mountains. One caveat--make sure if it has a Cummins ISL (8.9L)the engine was not built between October 2005 and April 2006. They had a defective wrist pin and some BLOWN engines as a result. I am looking right now to upgrade to an '08 or '09. I am looking at Monaco/Holiday, Newmar, Tiffin.
By the way, I would prefer a coach kept under cover when not in use--the sun is very hard on caulk.

Thanks everyone for the great information. I just watched a video about the Phaeton 40QBH. My wife loves it. I doubt we will be waiting the 4 years to make the purchase.

Please feel free to keep the information coming.

I think I would like to be in the 400= hp range. I do not want to feel as if the rv is overworking to do what I want it to. That is why I got rid of mt gas pick up. I want to be able to tow and maintain highway speed on cruise while going up hills/mountains.

We are planning to go to every rv show and dealer we have time for. As I mentioned earlier, I doubt we will be waiting 4 years to make a purchase

We have owned 9 RV's. 3 DP's and one gas (Winnabago). By far Tiffin has been the best. No one ever has to go to the Red Bay, Alabama Tiffin factory. There are a couple of members on this forum that post the same post over and over about "having to go the the factory". That just isn't true.

The great thing about Tiffin is if you do run into a problem, they answer their phones. On the few occasions we had to call, there was a tech to answer our questions. We feel like we'll be able to RV longer because of Tiffin's excellent customer support. This is not to say that they aren't built well. They are. We are on our second Phaeton. The only reason we bought the 2012 was for the half bath. We had 4 couples interested in buying our 05, so that says something about Tiffin's reputation.

Newmar and Winnabago were on our short list. We just thought the Phaeton's were prettier.

Bruce Brown wrote:

Ryanjb01 wrote:
Thanks for the great information.

A few questions:

1. What is the difference between the various Cummins Diesel engines available in Motorhomes? Is this the same engine that is used in 3/4 and 1 ton dodge trucks?

2. What is the difference between a "Hung" wall and a laminated wall?

3. Is there any chassis that I should stay away from? Why if any?

Thanks again for the information, the Ventana by Newmar looks impressive. Just what we are looking for. But I wish they had more power. 350hp seems a little on the low side. But I do not know what the torque is. Anyone know the ft/lb on the engine

1. The 350 in the Ventanna will be a Cummins ISC. I think you'll find it to be 1050 lb/ft torque. Power won't be an issue.

2. Hung wall construction doesn't reley on the lamination process for strength. It's built with aluminum studs on 16" centers with headers over the windows, doors, and slides. The wall is attached using the same type sealer as Harvestor silos (the blue ones) use. You would most likely rip the fiberglass before the Sikaflex gave up.
Laminate walls are literally glued together. The pieces of the wall are stacked together with glue between them. They are then run through a vac/press combination to sandwich the materials together. If they would never delaminate this system would be OK - depending on if the builder used enough structure as well. The issue is glues break down, quickly with heat and leaks. My S-I-L had a 2 year old TT delaminating - not good.

Newmar used to have a good video on it, now it's just a short part of this one.

Here is a picture of one builders laminated wall structure, before the parts are sandwiched in - not much there.



This is an extreme example of delamination, but once it starts it's about impossible to stop:



This would be more typical - notice the bubbling



And here is what it looks like on the inside - from a Winnebago I worked on this spring;





As far as chassis go, any newer diesel chassis should be fine. The engines, transmissions and suspension suppliers are used all of them.

The biggest differences would be when Monaco was making theirs they used a different suspension than Spartan, Freightliner, and ???. Newmar offers Comfort Drive - originally in Spartan, now in both Spartan and Freightliner. Some have independant front suspension, some have a straight beam front. Typically IFS rides better, Straight beam handles better. "Handles better" certainly is a realitive term. We've had both, I'd be happy with either.

do you have any after pics yet ?

RayChez wrote:

Bruce Brown wrote:

escottd wrote:
Everywhere I go people rave about their Tiffen.

Do they rave about the quality of the coach or the excellent factory support so many Tiffin owners seem to know about? ;)

I know 4 people who have owned Tiffins in the last 6 years - 3 of them are now former Tiffin owners. Thats say a lot to me.

BTW, the 3 former owners also raved about theirs too - when they owned them.

If everybody liked only one brand, there would be a lot of coach manufacturers that would be out of business.

If those people did not like what they own, they would never have bought it in the first place.

And that is the problem with some RVers in this forum. They think that the coach they own is the only brand worth anything. It is the best of the best. I say that is pure nonsense.

The part in bold really isn't true. The 3 former owners I know all fell for the Tiffin hype - my parents were one of them. Theirs made the seemingly typical trip back to the factory, the "repairs" didn't last the 1,100 mile trip home. It ended up in my garage where after a whole lot of "what were they thinking" :h I fixed it. That and a lot of sealer to getting the bays dried out.

One set actually traded in an Allegro Bus (it was beautiful, for sure) for a Georgetown. They're now back to Winniebago. When asking about Bus you better have some time on your hands - the list is long. Their final straw was when the already repaired sidewall cracked again.

IMO there are better choices than Tiffin - but thats my opinion. Unfortunately that opinion was formed after working on them and talking to friends and family who are now former owners. The funny part is my Mom would still tell you how great theirs was. You can tell she never worked on it. :B

Bruce Brown wrote:

escottd wrote:
Everywhere I go people rave about their Tiffen.

Do they rave about the quality of the coach or the excellent factory support so many Tiffin owners seem to know about? ;)

I know 4 people who have owned Tiffins in the last 6 years - 3 of them are now former Tiffin owners. Thats say a lot to me.

BTW, the 3 former owners also raved about theirs too - when they owned them.

If everybody liked only one brand, there would be a lot of coach manufacturers that would be out of business. If those people did not like what they own, they would never have bought it in the first place. And that is the problem with some RVers in this forum. They think that the coach they own is the only brand worth anything. It is the best of the best. I say that is pure nonsense.