Norcold fires...

Gale Hawkins wrote:
Old 2006 report states 4000 RV fires a year but not much details.

And there is the Motorhome and Recreational Vehicle Fire Investigation Manual, 2nd Edition if you want to spend the $35 for it. And best remember that it is additional specialized training for already trained fire investigators.

moisheh wrote:
Doug: Normally I would bow to your years of experience and technical knowledge. However reading posts and looking at pictures from those who caught fires before they burnt the whole thing down many of them were right around the element area and the units were on AC. There have also been posts from those who inspected that area and found charred insulation. They tested the elements and something was amiss. I would guess that there are many causes of the fires other than the elements. The recall seems to cause even more problems. I have read where an owner did the recall and the fridge died. Upon inspection the tubing had leaks exactly where the sensor was attached. Then there are problems with the black box failing and the unit shuts off. Of course this and other forums are not a reflection of the whole market for RV fridges. We do not see many posts about the Dometic 4 doors as most mfrs. have been using the Norcold. But Dometic has a history of bad boards going back at least 10 years. The Norcold really is a bad design. How can anyone produce a fridge where if the door gasket goes you must replace the doors at about $1000. There are more and more Class A,s that come with factory house fridges.

Moisheh

The recall can cause problems. BUT NOT IN COOLING of the refer. The install of the thermocoupler CANNOT cause a leak. The Recall kit CANNOT cause a leak. The ONLY thing the recall does is shut the refer down IF the recall malfunctions or the Refer overheats. The ONLY 1200/1210 that I have NOT been able to fix for inadequate cooling was a BOX that has lost its R factor. Has nothing to do with the cooling unit and IF the BOX has lost its R factor for insulation, NO COOLING UNIT Amish or Norcold will fix that. Norcold just made us aware of the R factor problem about 2 years ago. These are in Older refers that are more than 8 to 10 years old, when you pull the refer, you inspect the foil foam backed insulation and if the foam is puffy,weak,soft spots the foam has deteriorated to not insulate good. The only repair is a new refer. The BAD boards that you attribute to Dometic was from 1992 to 1997/08. Dometic has had NO problems with the new style boards from 1998 to current. Doug

I am NOT saying it does NOT happen. I am saying that the possibility is EXTREMELY remote. I HAVE seen residential Refers catch fire at HOMES. My parents was one and I put out the fire. That said, that does NOT mean that Residential refers are now a hazard, but they can cause a fire if the icemaker line supply leaks and contacs electrical systems in the refer. That is what happened to my parents refer. I have also read about fires and I do not doubt them, but it is extremely rare. Doug

azpete wrote:
i have to side with doug on this issue. i also have never seen a fire in a refrig caused by a ammonia leak. most of the fires i seen have been from rodent nest near the burner,lp leaks, or shorts on the circuit board. i believe the circuit board shorts are causing the of the norcold problem.
the photos mostly show burnt wires on the elements, and burned circuit boards. when an element is run constantly, it will eventually burn the wires. especially when you have to deal with low voltage, fluctuations in voltage, like we all do in campgrounds.
because of websites like rv.net, and irv2, the norcold refrig fires are just getting the most attention. there are other fires that, because of not being norcold, are overlooked.

Well, again its out of my area of expertise but when our fridge went up it was not because of elements , nests, rodents or control boards. An intense smell of ammonia followed by some (not heavy) smoke. I did the re and re myself and had the pleasure of removing the charred heat shield and crispy wood. I think we may have pictures on our old laptop but it might be interesting trying to get them off the hard drive. Anyway, that's our story. I agree its probably one in a million, I just won the lottery that day...I guess. :)

i have to side with doug on this issue. i also have never seen a fire in a refrig caused by a ammonia leak. most of the fires i seen have been from rodent nest near the burner,lp leaks, or shorts on the circuit board. i believe the circuit board shorts are causing the of the norcold problem.
the photos mostly show burnt wires on the elements, and burned circuit boards. when an element is run constantly, it will eventually burn the wires. especially when you have to deal with low voltage, fluctuations in voltage, like we all do in campgrounds.
because of websites like rv.net, and irv2, the norcold refrig fires are just getting the most attention. there are other fires that, because of not being norcold, are overlooked.

I can't comment on the science of what causes the fires as it is way beyond my knowledge of these things. But for those of us who have had it happen (the norcold 1200 meltdown) it is not an easily forgettable site when you get to see all the charred wood etc. Unfortunately a residential is not a practical resolution for everyone because of factors like budget, space for additional batteries, solar and inverter, install etc. I doubt there is any financial benefit either way if replacing with a residential as by the time the inverter, extra batteries and solar are installed I suspect the cost would be comparable. But for those who are willing to jump through the hoops of getting it done there are some nice benefits of the residential. Close to double the space in a unit with comparable frontal area, excellent performance, no worries of being off level on overnighters etc. For those who don't dry camp much the financial benefits of switching to residential are excellent as no solar needs to be added and existing battery capacity will be sufficient for the little bit of dry camping they do. For those of us who dry camp a lot obviously the investment is probably about 1500-1800 higher. For us it is well worth it but I can see where it wouldn't be everybodys thing.

We have two motorhomes. One is already converted. When our little C's fridge quits it will be replaced with a compressor unit as well. It is already setup with inverter, extra battery capacity and lots of solar. The upgrade to a compressor unit will probably cost under a 1000 bucks. We almost never have any kind of service when we use this rig but the power requirements of the 9 cubic foot and smaller compressor models are minimal in comparison to what a good solar array produces. It simply wouldn't make sense to replace the dometic with another gas burner. The compressor fridge that replaces the dometic 6 cubic foot is a 9 cubic foot. It is a no brainer.

Doug: Normally I would bow to your years of experience and technical knowledge. However reading posts and looking at pictures from those who caught fires before they burnt the whole thing down many of them were right around the element area and the units were on AC. There have also been posts from those who inspected that area and found charred insulation. They tested the elements and something was amiss. I would guess that there are many causes of the fires other than the elements. The recall seems to cause even more problems. I have read where an owner did the recall and the fridge died. Upon inspection the tubing had leaks exactly where the sensor was attached. Then there are problems with the black box failing and the unit shuts off. Of course this and other forums are not a reflection of the whole market for RV fridges. We do not see many posts about the Dometic 4 doors as most mfrs. have been using the Norcold. But Dometic has a history of bad boards going back at least 10 years. The Norcold really is a bad design. How can anyone produce a fridge where if the door gasket goes you must replace the doors at about $1000. There are more and more Class A,s that come with factory house fridges.

Moisheh

i also have no problem using the norcold 1200 because of the fire concern. my problem is that the 1200rim norcold refrig in my coach will not get cold or stay cold enough to keep my food from spoiling. when the outside temp goes over 90 degrees. i have read about all the fires, and am convinced that most problems are occurring when the coach is parked and used long term on 110 volts. just my opinion.
norcold cant fix these refrigerators. thats apparent because mine, as well as most of them, has had six recall repairs, with the same results. yes, the recalls may prevent fires, but it still wont cool properly. all the recall repairs do is shut the refrig off when it get too hot, which is good, because thats supposed to prevent the fires.
im not so much worried about fires as i am about all the spoiled food. i use my refrig on propane only, and i am hoping this would prevent the problem of fire. again, just my opinion. i got tired of worrying, so i fixed it.
to solve the dilemma, i have installed an amana cooling unit. there is a major difference in the construction of the two cooling units. amana has a double coil setup thats very impressive. im hoping thats not for looks only.
since installing the cooling unit, i have been out in 110 degree weather down in gila bend az, for 4 days, and the refrig maintained -5 degrees in the freezer, and 38 degrees in the lower box. that works for me.
there have been many posts on the norcold problem, and from my observations, and experience, the new cooling unit is the only repair that works. sorry to be long winded, but ive finally done what i should have done several years ago.

Sitting around a campfire with some FT'ers that said their prior coach burned to the ground while they were out on a lake in a friends pontoon. They looked back and the coach was up in flames.

I assume it was on propane since their new coach was completely electric (no gas at all,) that was how scared they were of another fire. Said it was a horrible feeling to see everything you got, in one small package disappear in a matter of minutes.

I waited a few days before posting. This type thread comes up at least once a month and has for years.
ALL cooling units can leak at any time. They do and always have for 100 years. Are there MORE leakers than 30 years ago? Of course. There are millions MORE RV's and RV refers out there than 30 years ago. So, take the numbers and statistically the "number" will be higher if a certain percentage will leak. DOES a leak result in a FIRE??? Again, NO. Very few leakers result in a fire. YES, it IS possible for a leaker to catch fire. I have 34 years as an RV tech. I have NEVER seen a fire resulted from a CU leak. I HAVE seen refer fires, but they were caused by LP problems(leak or burner problems caused by insects nests or rodent nests). OR Rodent nests and such building flammable nests behind the refer. A CU leak is usually very small and the amount of ammonia leaking out is not sufficient to catch fire. That said, MOST refers are operated on 120 volts and the burner flue area cannot reach the flammable point, On LP, it is possible. This whole "Sky is falling" is nonsense. ALL it does is make people like the poster concerned/scared about a non event that might happen. A Few years ago, Dometic had a similar recall for potential fire problems (WAY before Norcold had their recall) and the same people screamed that it was a deadly accident waiting to happen. ANYONE seen any postings in the past years about the Dometic problem??? Norcold has scores of refer models and ONLY the 4 door 1200/1210 series is having the Recall HI Thermocoupler kit installed. This does NOT stop a fire if a fire occurs. What the recall does is this-Norcold determined that IF there was a problem with ventilation and the rear area cooling unit overheated, THAT may cause a CU to rupture. So, this kit will turn the refer off and shut it down if the back side of the flue chimney reaches 700 degrees. The NORMAL operating temp in that area is 300 to 350 degrees. I have NO problem with my family and friends using any RV with ANY model RV refer including the Norcold 1200/1210 series. Doug