OK, let's talk TV antennas

Scott,
When troubleshooting anything, it pays to keep it simple. The first thing I would do is remove the Jack from the coach, take it inside, and hook it up to the power supply that came with the Jack. If the LED lights up, you can now eliminate some things from the process. Now you install it on the roof, and try a new cable from the Jack to your inside TV, by runnig a loose cable from the Jack, through a window or door, directly to the TV, using the power supply that came with the jack. Again, this will tell you if the jack is working and now you can see what channels are coming in on your antenna.
Remember that using an ohmmeter to check for continuity only uses a very small amount of current/amperage. When actually hooked up to a 12 volt supply, your antenna amplifier will need enough current to power the circuitry.
By doing things one step at a time, you can usually isolate the specific area that is causing your problem.

Well Gang,
Here's the results of, a lot of work, some investigation into my antenna system and, some repair and purchase of new equipment. I now get about 5 channels, all Spanish, in my area. Wow, I'm sure glad I did all that work. (yeah sure). Now, I live in Ramona CA and, the whole town just about has cable or Satellite that I know of so, trying to receive signals from broadcasting towers, several miles away and with lots of terrain that would interfere, I don't know how many other folks up here, and in RVs, receive those signals without issues.

And, here's one more point. When I use our Digital Converter Box, and do a full scan, we get NOTHING!!! ZIPPO, NADA,!!!! But, when I use our daughters, out of their coach, we at least get 3-5 Spanish channels.

So, at this point, I'm done screwing around with it. It appears that I'm not as lucky as many of you that receive tons and tons of channels on a regular tilt up antenna like either the Bat wing or a Jack. I'm going to get what I get. Oh well, chalk it up to more experience. Thanks for all the help and assistance.
Scott

P.S. Eventually we'll do a TV swap to a modern Flat Screen LED or whatever's popular at that time and maybe, that will help. But, I'm not going to spend the money for that right now, just to try and get more channels on a rarely used antenna system. That time will come soon enough.
Scott

Yep, that converter box is a receiver with lots of electronics inside and its not DC passive (but you just found that out....)

Don't know which switch box you have, but if you don't have a VHS machine any longer, you can use that output to feed the converter box (STB), so now any place you punch up VCR, you actually have the STB there. If you still have a VHS or the DVD RF out, that won't work. Lemme sleep on this. There is a way to do this with power inserters but being in Chicago this week it's too late to think.... :)

Jeff,
I surely thank you for assisting me here. I didn't see your addition to this dilemma until I was done with my mini-novel in the last post. You know, I figured it, (that little coil of wire around that tiny piece of plastic) was there for a reason. And not to be a "fuse". If they wanted a fuse, then put one in it. And, by the way, it sure would have been nice to have had one. Replacing a fuse is quite a bit easier than soldering in a new wire.

Well, all of this thread, and the effort and work I've done towards getting the TV system to work on regular antenna, is really for a "Backup" of TV viewing options, just in case the Satellite system and or, park cable system (if we have one where we're camping at, at that present time) is of no use or, is down for some reason.

Another words, I like options. If the satellite system is no good due to a hinderance of the ability of the dish to find the bird, i.e. trees in the way, clouds, heavy rain, etc. and, if we're in a park at the same time, and the cable system is down for some reason, I'd like to be able to use the antenna system if and when I think I might want it. I also figure, If I'm carrying all this gear, i.e. antenna, converter box, multi-switch box etc. I want it all to work.
Scott

Well Gang,
I'm at a stalemate here. After all the surgery on the Winegard Entertainment Select Multi-switch box, I found I've got another problem. It's always me. It never happens to anyone else. Anyway, I thought I had everything hunky dory and hooked it all up and turned on the power booster in the multi-switch box. I then went outside to verify that I had power to the new Jack antenna by seeing a lit up LED on the bottom of the Jack.

Well, guess what, NO LED! I went back in, and, confirmed I had power coming out of the recently repaired MSB. Hmmmmm. Well, the routing of the cable, from the top (or bottom side of the new Jack antenna is, out of the antenna, through the lift rails, into the roof, (via a connector) and, along and inside the ceiling, and finally into the back of the Digital Converter box. From there, it goes into the "Antenna In" port on the back of the MSB.

Now, I figured, since I got the 12VDC to work, and, it's designed to travel "backwards" along that same route, that, I'd have power at the antenna, correct? Well, it hit a stop in the road. And that stop is, the Digital Converter Box. I've got 12VDC going backwards, into where the "TV OUT" is on that box. But, here's the problem, I've got no power coming out of the "Antenna IN" on that Digital box. I have to see 12V there in order for the 12V to go backwards up the line, to the antenna head and, light up the LED on the bottom of the Jack antenna.

Well, I thought my Digital box was bad since it would not let the 12V go backwards through it. So, I buzzed over to my daughters and picked up their digital converter box and brought it home to try out. Well, guess what, it works the exact same. It will not let the 12V go backwards through those two cable connections on the back of the DCB.

OK, now you're all brought up to date. But, here's the problem as I see it. The new Jack antenna head, as well as the old Winegard Bat wing, needs 12V at antenna in order to boost the output of the signal. Now, how is it supposed to get that power if, the signal HAS to pass through a Digital Converter box that, WILL NOT LET THE POWER PASS THROUGH those two cable connections? And, because we have a dinosaur TV, a 2004 Sony, we need the Converter box.

Now, the Jack Antenna instructions for setup, explicitly state that if you already have an antenna power booster, then use it, and not use the one that came with the kit. Or, if you don't have one, then use the one that came in the kit. But, it states, at least several times, DO NOT USE BOTH BOOSTERS!! Use one or the other but, not both. So, since the one in the multi-switch box is not getting through to the antenna head due to a road block in the digital converter box, I thought I'd pull a fast one.

What I did was, install their "Power injector" in between the antenna and the digital converter box. Well, that did it. I now had a brightly lit up LED on the bottom of the new Jack antenna. Well, all that's left now is to pull the big beast out in the morning so I can raise the antenna all the way up and do a channel scan to see if all this work and frustration were worth it. Man, nothing for me is ever easy on this rig.

One more thing. The Power Injector supplied with the kit, HAS NO SWITCH on it. That means it's on, 24/7 365. Unless you actually un plug it. What a pain. I don't think I'm too keen on letting it stay on for 24/7.

Jack, in their instructions and trouble shooting page, tell of several remedies if no channels are picked up. The first thing on the list is, "Is the LED" lit up? If not, then they have multiple remedies for getting it to work. But, the point is, GET IT TO WORK. How can you do that if (1) you need a digital converter box because you have a dinosaur TV and (2), the digital converter box "STOPS" the 12V signal from ever reaching the antenna head????

And, even if you use theirs, they mention nothing about it being on, 24/7 365. I've never heard of leaving one of those on. Any help here would certainly be appreciated.
Scott

Scott,
What you have there all burnt up in your hand is what is known as an RF Choke, it just acted like a fuse. That simple little coil blocks the RF coming off the antenna from getting into the DC, and allows power to be inserted without it shorting the antenna RF out. What killed it is a mystery, but you should rewind that choke as close to what was there as possible since, believe it or not, it's semi-critical. The wire likely used was coated magnet or transformer wire.. If the windings are side by side, you might need to use that. If its a open wind around a matchstick or something, then just don't let them short together.

FIRE UP wrote:
Ok Gang,
Here's the latest news. I checked continuity for the center conductor from the connector at the roof, to the input at the digital converter. And, also checked it on the outer shield and nut. Both were good. None between the two. (no continuity between the conductor and the outer shield)
I then re-installed the base with a new bead of Silicone and then, I installed the new "Jack" antenna on the existing tilting arms. Well, I went in and hooked things all up and turned on the "Power booster" that's located/built in to the multi-switch box. The light on the front of the box came on. But, when I went out to confirm the LED on the bottom of the new Jack antenna was on, NOPE, no light. Hmmmmmm

So, the investigation began. Well, long story short, I determined I had power inside that multi-switch box but, none coming out of the antenna "Input" from the antenna. I figured that's the only way 12VDC will get to that LED in the antenna. So, some further investigation reveals that there's no contact of the conductor to the "Pinch points" inside the connection for the "ANTENNA IN" port.

Well, I stuck a pin, smaller than the conductor and, it has resistance in all the inputs/outputs with the exception of the ANTENNA IN port.

So, the box came out and onto the work bench. After some dicecting, it was determined that something must have shorted on the back side of that port. They, Winegard, the maker of the box, used some sort of very, very small (about 1/16 in diameter coil of wire around a tiny piece of plastic dowel, also about 1/16", for a FUSE!. Well, that's amazing. That tiny, tiny coil of wire, which was burnt pretty good, renders that $80.00 box useless.

Well, me being me, and "MacGuyver" my middle name, I decided to "rewire" it, as Tim Allen would say. So, some tiny wire, soldered to an empty terminal on the 12V Power booster switch, and to the correct location on the back side of that "Antenna In" port, and, a quick bench test and, all is good to this point. Now, to put it all back together and do a check in the rig and, if it checks out ok, I'll do a channel search. That's the latest for now.
Scott

I am following with great interest.

Only flaw I see is Tim wouldn't say "rewire" he would say "
MORE POWER":)

Ok Gang,
Here's the latest news. I checked continuity for the center conductor from the connector at the roof, to the input at the digital converter. And, also checked it on the outer shield and nut. Both were good. None between the two. (no continuity between the conductor and the outer shield)
I then re-installed the base with a new bead of Silicone and then, I installed the new "Jack" antenna on the existing tilting arms. Well, I went in and hooked things all up and turned on the "Power booster" that's located/built in to the multi-switch box. The light on the front of the box came on. But, when I went out to confirm the LED on the bottom of the new Jack antenna was on, NOPE, no light. Hmmmmmm

So, the investigation began. Well, long story short, I determined I had power inside that multi-switch box but, none coming out of the antenna "Input" from the antenna. I figured that's the only way 12VDC will get to that LED in the antenna. So, some further investigation reveals that there's no contact of the conductor to the "Pinch points" inside the connection for the "ANTENNA IN" port.

Well, I stuck a pin, smaller than the conductor and, it has resistance in all the inputs/outputs with the exception of the ANTENNA IN port.

So, the box came out and onto the work bench. After some dicecting, it was determined that something must have shorted on the back side of that port. They, Winegard, the maker of the box, used some sort of very, very small (about 1/16 in diameter coil of wire around a tiny piece of plastic dowel, also about 1/16", for a FUSE!. Well, that's amazing. That tiny, tiny coil of wire, which was burnt pretty good, renders that $80.00 box useless.

Well, me being me, and "MacGuyver" my middle name, I decided to "rewire" it, as Tim Allen would say. So, some tiny wire, soldered to an empty terminal on the 12V Power booster switch, and to the correct location on the back side of that "Antenna In" port, and, a quick bench test and, all is good to this point. Now, to put it all back together and do a check in the rig and, if it checks out ok, I'll do a channel search. That's the latest for now.
Scott

OK Gang,
Well, the DW and Sophie (our crazy mini Schnauzer) took a ride to Camping World today. We picked up a new "Jack" antenna replacement head, some Dicor self leveling caulking, a two way level and a small sewing kit. As previously stated, I had to remove the entire base of the antenna so I could gain access to a coax coupling that was tucked down in the foam of the ceiling.

I straightened out the "Z" bend in the coax, took some readings on the piece that runs up the antenna arm and it's fine. So, tomorrow, I'll do a check on the one that runs into the digital converter box to see if there's any electrical gremlins in that one. Then, I'll seal the bottom of the antenna base, install it and "Dicor" the edges and screw tops. I will then install the new "Jack" head and move the coach outside of its cover and start doing some testing. I will keep all informed of what I find. I will check also the cable routing to make sure it's hooked up correctly from point to point. Thanks again for all your assistance here. It's greatly appreciated.
Scott

That's a powered head, so he also needs the power inserter.