SAD, SAD, News today

Slowing down will save a lot of lives.

bigdogger wrote:

down home wrote:
I'm not going to cast blame. Unfortunate and tragic is all I'll say.
Have to wait until there is an investigation completed.
Intent is criminal accident is an accident maybe negligence.
Sounds like the blind curve and officer in a bad place and a heavy motorhome, not able to maneauver any faster than a semi.
Prayers for all involved.

Agreed. There is no way to judge this incident on the information provided. The officer may have been the first on the scene and just exited his vehicle. The officer had no control over where the truck overturned, so he might have been stuck with a bunch of bad options. He had to place his patrol vehicle between the overturned vehicle and the flow of traffic or there most likely would have been many more collisions. If the accident had just happened, there may not have been a backup of traffic and traffic on the other side of the blind curve would have no reason to suspect the need to slow down. While the advice to slow down to a speed you can stop before you reach anything you see in the road sounds nice, it is impossible and dangerous in many situations. Maybe the blind corner only had less than 100 feet of forward visibility, in that case you would need to be traveling extremely slow and therefore become a traffic hazard to all the traffic behind you. Slow moving vehicles on high speed highways are just as dangerous as vehicles traveling at excessive speeds. Hence minimum speed limits. To me this sounds like people and vehicles were unfortunately at the wrong place at the wrong time and there is no way any of them could have had the foresight to do anything about it. Sometimes an unfortunate accident is exactly that.

I totally disagree with not casting blame look at the pictures! A Incident Response Team Emergency Vehicle with overhead lights on, a Emergency Police Cruiser with overhead lights on! And the motorhome driver is squeezing in between the Incident Response vehicle and the Police Cruiser? What I see is a Wrongful Death Lawsuit!

down home wrote:
I'm not going to cast blame. Unfortunate and tragic is all I'll say.
Have to wait until there is an investigation completed.
Intent is criminal accident is an accident maybe negligence.
Sounds like the blind curve and officer in a bad place and a heavy motorhome, not able to maneauver any faster than a semi.
Prayers for all involved.

Agreed. There is no way to judge this incident on the information provided. The officer may have been the first on the scene and just exited his vehicle. The officer had no control over where the truck overturned, so he might have been stuck with a bunch of bad options. He had to place his patrol vehicle between the overturned vehicle and the flow of traffic or there most likely would have been many more collisions. If the accident had just happened, there may not have been a backup of traffic and traffic on the other side of the blind curve would have no reason to suspect the need to slow down. While the advice to slow down to a speed you can stop before you reach anything you see in the road sounds nice, it is impossible and dangerous in many situations. Maybe the blind corner only had less than 100 feet of forward visibility, in that case you would need to be traveling extremely slow and therefore become a traffic hazard to all the traffic behind you. Slow moving vehicles on high speed highways are just as dangerous as vehicles traveling at excessive speeds. Hence minimum speed limits. To me this sounds like people and vehicles were unfortunately at the wrong place at the wrong time and there is no way any of them could have had the foresight to do anything about it. Sometimes an unfortunate accident is exactly that.

People in all vehicles drive too fast. My kids call me a grandpa cause I drive under the speed limit often. Heck I am only 52 but in no hurry.
I can tell you slowing down has saved my tail several times.

I often comment on how fast many drive their MH. Not leaving distance between others. Driving a MH. over 55 MPH. is just plain crazy.

I am always in the right lane putting along. Hope I am never in this type situation.

I do have a CDL. license and feel it should be required of drivers driving heavy vehicles.

Pogoil.

RetSgt7114 wrote:
@ Daveinet,

Dave, while I respect your opinion, you couldn't be more wrong. I don't want to come across as a know-it-all, but I do speak with some authority on this topic. Some will disagree,and that's ok, but never-the-less I served over 30+ years as a LEO, the last 10 as a supervisor in a traffic unit, so I have investigated thousands (literally) of traffic collisions (they are never "accidents), in my career.

The two most predominate factors that lead to traffic collisions - in my humble experience - have been excessive speed for the traffic conditions present, and driver inattentiveness. I can assure you that the training that Officers and Troopers receive in most jurisdictions do help them to, as you say, "manage the traffic flow around the situation" adequately. We are well aware of the dangers that stopped traffic presents to Traffic Officers working on highways. It's not a "lack of training of the police" issue as you suggested, I can assure you of that. As far as your comment about the officer positioning his squad car off the side of the road on the shoulder, yes that it the best case scenario, but if you have a crashed vehicle blocking the lane, the proper procedure is to block that lane with your patrol car and have emergency lights activated in order to protect the scene, and this is what appears that the officer was doing.

I was involved in a similar TC many years ago on the interstate where I came upon a collision on a blind curve where two vehicles collided, so I pulled to the shoulder with my lights activated. I no sooner exited my patrol car when speeding cars coming around the curve started to panic and began to crash into the rear of my patrol car. Fortuntely the two other vehicles and occupants in front of me did not get hit. I had no time what-so-ever to reposition my car to provide more warning. You know what though? All the drivers that were not speeding, and who were driving attentively, somehow managed to drive around me safely.

I stand by what I said earlier and that is that we, as motorists, are wholely responsible for maintaining control of our vehicles at all times, even around a "blind" curve. I'm sure that there were dozens of other vehicles that came before our fellow RV'er around that blind curve in Nashville, that did manage to avoid the police and DOT vehicle. Not casting judgement on our fellow RV'er, just making an observation.

Lastly, you said, "Start brainstorming real solutions rather than think more strict laws and harping on moving over. Obviously those ideas are a complete failure." Although this comment is a bit condescending, I'd be interested to know how you came to this conclusion? Real world statistics prove otherwise.

Stay safe my friend.

x2. RetSgt7114 and I seem to have very similar vocational backgrounds. Over 30 years LEO here, 22 as a Command Officer, last 9 as OIC of the Traffic Division for a 500+ sworn officer agency. We know what works and what doesn't. Quite often we have to deal with conditions that are not ideal, and it is often impossible to get things in perfect order. We have to make do with the hand that is dealt us. One thing is certain... its up to each individual driver to operate his/her motor vehicle in a safe manner, and that includes not over-driving their ability to control their vehicle. If the driver can't move over a lane, then slow down enough to proceed safely around the danger. This crash should never have happened.

You set up traffic management when others arrive. You give yourself a lane to walk in and you still take your life in your hands. Standing on the side of the road and feeling cars and trucks go by at 50-60-70 mph is interesting. My cruiser was hit on a two lane road. Drunk just plowed into it. I was at the stopped vehicles passenger window. Yes they need better traffic management but the first guy on the scene takes time to set up. The MH driver should have just stopped. I know I was pulling into a rest area and right by the entrance there was an incident. I stopped and waited till they waved me thru. Pulled my park brake before that and they used my hm as a blocker to cross the entrance ramp. There were four of them and it looked like a felony stop of a truck.

I, too agree with RetSgt7114. It was a tragic and unnecessary loss of life. My prayers will go out to him and his family and friends. They will need it.

As for the driver....he'll too, have to live with this tragedy regardless of whether charges, if any, will be filed. I bet the length and weight police will be all over his rig and I hope, for his sake, he's legal......just sayin....Dennis

@ Daveinet,

Dave, while I respect your opinion, you couldn't be more wrong. I don't want to come across as a know-it-all, but I do speak with some authority on this topic. Some will disagree,and that's ok, but never-the-less I served over 30+ years as a LEO, the last 10 as a supervisor in a traffic unit, so I have investigated thousands (literally) of traffic collisions (they are never "accidents), in my career.

The two most predominate factors that lead to traffic collisions - in my humble experience - have been excessive speed for the traffic conditions present, and driver inattentiveness. I can assure you that the training that Officers and Troopers receive in most jurisdictions do help them to, as you say, "manage the traffic flow around the situation" adequately. We are well aware of the dangers that stopped traffic presents to Traffic Officers working on highways. It's not a "lack of training of the police" issue as you suggested, I can assure you of that. As far as your comment about the officer positioning his squad car off the side of the road on the shoulder, yes that it the best case scenario, but if you have a crashed vehicle blocking the lane, the proper procedure is to block that lane with your patrol car and have emergency lights activated in order to protect the scene, and this is what appears that the officer was doing.

I was involved in a similar TC many years ago on the interstate where I came upon a collision on a blind curve where two vehicles collided, so I pulled to the shoulder with my lights activated. I no sooner exited my patrol car when speeding cars coming around the curve started to panic and began to crash into the rear of my patrol car. Fortuntely the two other vehicles and occupants in front of me did not get hit. I had no time what-so-ever to reposition my car to provide more warning. You know what though? All the drivers that were not speeding, and who were driving attentively, somehow managed to drive around me safely.

I stand by what I said earlier and that is that we, as motorists, are wholely responsible for maintaining control of our vehicles at all times, even around a "blind" curve. I'm sure that there were dozens of other vehicles that came before our fellow RV'er around that blind curve in Nashville, that did manage to avoid the police and DOT vehicle. Not casting judgement on our fellow RV'er, just making an observation.

Lastly, you said, "Start brainstorming real solutions rather than think more strict laws and harping on moving over. Obviously those ideas are a complete failure." Although this comment is a bit condescending, I'd be interested to know how you came to this conclusion? Real world statistics prove otherwise.

Stay safe my friend.

I agree completely with the statement that "if you can't stop in the distance you can see you are going too fast". I also understand that with traffic it is sometimes impossible to move over and have been in that situation. I slowed down to about 10 MPH and just crawled past. Was I risking being rear-ended? Possibly, but that is still infinitely better than killing someone who is just trying to do their job.

Daveinet wrote:
One can only hope that police forces all over the country re-evaluate the management of stopped vehicles along the side of the road.

There are a few problems when it comes to traffic management.. And I have personally lost friends.

First: Drivers who very simply are not paying attention.. Do not notice the flashing lights, barricades and such. I will tell you how bad it gets.

Second: Drivers who are distracted by cell phoens, or such.. I find phone to be very distracting (though long years of multi-tasking help when the )@(#$)@ thing rings when Im on the road it's still goning to be one SHORT conservation I promise you) 2-way Radio is not distracting however.. Totally different mindset there.

Next: "Driving under the influence" Even if it is under the influence of fatigue toxins (Too tired)..

Now: I promised to tell you how bad, NO POLICE or Public Safety personnel were injured (other than a bit of carpel tunnel.. MINE)

Freeway construction, Been on going for some time, Flashing arrow closing off a lane.. now due to it's location (NO sound barrier) they used a battery powered arrow. No solar (yet).

Crew has JUST replaced the batteries, so they are brand new fresh full charge.

2 man crew,, one hops the median wall to talk to a motorist who's car broke down and summon assistance while the other gets in the truck (Which also has a flasher on it) intending to swing around and pick his partner up when WHAM!!!!!!

Woman doing at least 15MPH over the speed limit slams full into the nice bright flashing ARROW trailer,< Batteries go flying, the one employee got down behind the wall so no damage to him (His outfit had some acid burns though, He was ok) The other was inside the now dented truck. As for the woman.. Well she will not do it again.

But that arrow had to be repositioned at least twice a day, Every time they replaced the batteries, from folks hitting it (Just not usually doing that good a job).

That's how bad it is.. NO amount of police planing will fix that,

I have had 4 troopers run over, 3 of them lived, one did not, One survived two tours in Detroit, was in Grand Rapids on a "Milk run" Traffic control for a Governors convention. Drunk He's the one who died (killed by a drunk).. One of the troopers who lived,, Hit square on by a pick up.. Intentional assault, not an accident.. (We got the guy who did it). He was unable to return to work.. Turns out a 2nd chance vest IS pick up truck proof (Else he'd have died).

One got broken legs.. Light duty for a while but recovered.

one had more serious injures, Did not return to work,Injuries similar to the one run over on purpose.

After I retired from the Police,, I dispatched Tow Trucks for a couple of years.. One of my better drivers got hit (Well his truck did, He was treated and released and did return to work the next day).

He was at an accident scene, Police Dash cam caught the crash.

Short of a full closure of the road (And I've seen that fail) noting will help.

Yup, drunk ran around the barricades on a freeway under re-construction and did a headlight to headlight with one of the crew's trucks.. I do not recall if he survived,, No workers injured.

Had another ran around the barricades onto a bridge not yet finished.. He did hit a worker (minor injury but good for a stint in the pen) totaled his now Ex (I hope) Girlfirend's new Denali class pickup, (We had to call a crane to lift it back to the road so we could tow it in).. And.. Here is the kicker.. His GF's insurance company knew about him and he was a NAMED EXCLUDED DRIVER.. So.. no coverage.