Suspension Improvements - Best Order

OFDPOS wrote:
Have you weighed your MH fully loaded for travel ?

Yes.

OFDPOS wrote:
The Bilstein's are HD shocks NOT "stiff" shocks.

Then what are Bilstein's Comfort shocks? I'm willing to bet that Bilstein means for their "HD" shocks to be stiffer than their "Comfort" shocks. Some suppliers that sell Bilstein shocks actually recommend different part nos. for small cutaway van based motorhomes versus other Bilstein part nos. for larger cutaway van based motorhomes. All this is confusing, to say the least.

OFDPOS wrote:
Koni's FSD did a good write up sales pitch on their shocks, they even have you preaching their sales pitch advertisement.

Please refute point by point why what they say doesn't make sense based on the physics of what's happening with respect to unsprung weight, spring rate, RV weight, and type of road surfaces. As I understand it, some race cars use special $$$$ variable damping rate shocks that adjust automatically several times per second.

After reading about the Koni FSD shock technology years ago I looked into buying them for our Ford E-Series based Class C motorhome and they were not offering them at the time ... only for the Class A and Class C+ motorhome chassis. I called Koni and discussed with them the need for FSD shock models for the popular Ford and Chevy cutaway van chassis being used in so many U.S. Class C motorhomes. A couple of years later Koni introduced part nos. for the 3X and 4X class LD truck chassis - including the Ford E-350/E-450 and Chevy 3500/4500 van chassis.

pnichols wrote:

OFDPOS wrote:
Here is a blog about porpoising and you can feel good because it talks about the koni's FSD shock.

http://blog.goodsam.com/porpoising-what-it-is-and-how-to-stop-it

Like another post I said the Koni's helped with the slam over the bridge joints and major cracks in the road.
BUT so did the Bilstein's and had I gone with them I'd have close to $300 in my pocket.
The place where I had my alignment done stated how the koni's were designed to work as you described...Rebound BUT I'll take a front end NOT diving down every time I hit a dip in the road over the uneasy feeling of the knoi's .. They sell both the Bilstein's and Koni's But I think they were a little bias, the co-owner was wearing a jacket with a koni patch on it... lol

I'll leave the koni's on the rear, but I see in the near future swapping the konis FSD's out for Bilstein's in the front..

I read the article in the link you gave above and it did speak highly of the Koni FSD shocks.

The article also stated that porpoising seems to be more predominate in short motorhomes ... which is exactly what I have ... but for some reason I've never noticed any of this effect that is described in the article.

What I did notice was the pounding in the rear due to my overkill chassis, and the FSD shocks did help with this. I hope the FSD shocks do the same for the stiff front coil springs when the OEM front shocks finally - if ever - wear out. I really can't see how adding stiff shocks to leaf or coil springs that already may be too stiff can help with cracks and potholes.

Have you weighed your MH fully loaded for travel ?

The Bilstein's are HD shocks NOT "stiff" shocks.

Have you run both Koni's and Bilstein's back to back ??

I have so I'm speaking of first hand experience and not what I read in some article or hearsay from others.
I'm not satisfied with the koni's ! I was with the Bilstein's , and I'll say it again reading posts here last year and how other forum members spoke so highly of the koni's I went with them this time around. Wished I didn't ,,, Big mistake on my part..

I think alot go by if its more money it "must" be better.
Then when they spent the more money they won't admit they should have went the cheaper route which would have been better ...

Koni's FSD did a good write up sales pitch on their shocks, they even have you preaching their sales pitch advertisement.

I've admitted since the day I put them on and road tested it. I straight up said I wasted my money and wasn't happy with the ride of the koni's and should have went with my gut feeling and NOT listen to the ones preaching the shock that walks on water its so good.

What looks /sounds good on paper doesn't always transfer to what actually works good in the real world ...

I'm done beating this dead horse, I know what works and doesn't work as for the shocks. And for me the koni's don't work on the front of my MH.

But YMMV ;)

OFDPOS wrote:
Here is a blog about porpoising and you can feel good because it talks about the koni's FSD shock.

http://blog.goodsam.com/porpoising-what-it-is-and-how-to-stop-it

Like another post I said the Koni's helped with the slam over the bridge joints and major cracks in the road.
BUT so did the Bilstein's and had I gone with them I'd have close to $300 in my pocket.
The place where I had my alignment done stated how the koni's were designed to work as you described...Rebound BUT I'll take a front end NOT diving down every time I hit a dip in the road over the uneasy feeling of the knoi's .. They sell both the Bilstein's and Koni's But I think they were a little bias, the co-owner was wearing a jacket with a koni patch on it... lol

I'll leave the koni's on the rear, but I see in the near future swapping the konis FSD's out for Bilstein's in the front..

I read the article in the link you gave above and it did speak highly of the Koni FSD shocks.

The article also stated that porpoising seems to be more predominate in short motorhomes ... which is exactly what I have ... but for some reason I've never noticed any of this effect that is described in the article.

What I did notice was the pounding in the rear due to my overkill chassis, and the FSD shocks did help with this. I hope the FSD shocks do the same for the stiff front coil springs when the OEM front shocks finally - if ever - wear out. I really can't see how adding stiff shocks to leaf or coil springs that already may be too stiff can help with cracks and potholes.

Well both bars are on as of last weekend and we take the coach out for its maiden trip next weekend. That following Monday it goes into the truck shop for its alignment.

Lets see how I end up !

pnichols wrote:
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OFDPOS wrote:
If those were the OEM shocks, any of the new Bilstein's , Monroe, Koni's shocks would have helped with the slam/pounding.

Scratching my head and thinking about it ... what you say doesn't seem to add up physics-wise.

Most Class C owners think they need the single action heavy duty (which pretty much means "all the time stff") Bilstein, Monroe, or standard Koni shocks for good control. "Good control" usually meaning control of sway, leaning, wind-push swaying, and front-to-back rocking. Stiff shocks is what's needed for these situations.

For the rapid motions resulting from roadway cracks and potholes it seems to make sense that the last thing needed would be shock stiffness added to leaf spring stiffness. If this is true, the high frequency mode of the Koni FSD shocks (not Koni's standard shocks) .... which as I understand results in momentary reduced damping ... is what's needed. In other words "no shock at all" is what's needed on the rapidly occuring ("high frequency motion") edges of cracks and potholes.

Like you I replaced old worn out shocks with new shocks. Like you I noticed an instant change for the good.
You put on the koni's FSD's , I put on the Bilstein's not once but twice on older MH's and noticed the instant change for the better.

Now reading comments like yours a few post up and others, I bought into the koni's FSD's being the mighty best invention since sliced bread.

Boy was I wrong ! The front end dives on every dip in the road what Whizbang seems to be getting confused with swaying.

Here is a blog about porpoising and you can feel good because it talks about the koni's FSD shock. ;)

http://blog.goodsam.com/porpoising-what-it-is-and-how-to-stop-it

Like another post I said the Koni's helped with the slam over the bridge joints and major cracks in the road.
BUT so did the Bilstein's and had I gone with them I'd have close to $300 in my pocket.
The place where I had my alignment done stated how the koni's were designed to work as you described...Rebound BUT I'll take a front end NOT diving down every time I hit a dip in the road over the uneasy feeling of the knoi's .. They sell both the Bilstein's and Koni's But I think they were a little bias, the co-owner was wearing a jacket with a koni patch on it... lol

I'll leave the koni's on the rear, but I see in the near future swapping the konis FSD's out for Bilstein's in the front..

javascript:;

OFDPOS wrote:
If those were the OEM shocks, any of the new Bilstein's , Monroe, Koni's shocks would have helped with the slam/pounding.

Scratching my head and thinking about it ... what you say doesn't seem to add up physics-wise.

Most Class C owners think they need the single action heavy duty (which pretty much means "all the time stff") Bilstein, Monroe, or standard Koni shocks for good control. "Good control" usually meaning control of sway, leaning, wind-push swaying, and front-to-back rocking. Stiff shocks is what's needed for these situations.

For the rapid motions resulting from roadway cracks and potholes it seems to make sense that the last thing needed would be shock stiffness added to leaf spring stiffness. If this is true, the high frequency mode of the Koni FSD shocks (not Koni's standard shocks) .... which as I understand results in momentary reduced damping ... is what's needed. In other words "no shock at all" is what's needed on the rapidly occuring ("high frequency motion") edges of cracks and potholes.

whizbang,

I side with everyone else, kindly and respectfully disagreeing with you. The floatie-boatie handling that resembles a drunken sailor is a dangerous driving condition. It is a poor decision to prioritize a softer ride over stability and control.

I would not be typing here right now if not for the handling improvements I had done with our rig. Me and my wife would instead be dead. We almost lost our lives on a winding canyon byway during a hard brake-slamming situation done while in a sharp turn at a misjudged speed that was way too fast. The suspension improvements kept all 4 corners firmly planted on the pavement for the brakes and tires to do their job. If I was setup as you, our motor home and tow vehicle and us inside, would have tumbled hundreds of feet down into the canyon.

You will never convince me otherwise because I drove our rig both ways, before and after the suspension upgrades. Done right, the porpoising issue is less than you make it out to be. A rig unmodified does porpoise too, but is masked by all the other movements. Better to go a little up/down rather than swaying and wandering about all over the road along with a little up/down. Not just for all the reasons mentioned already, but also for passenger comfort and driver fatigue. People who suffer from car sickness appreciate the upgrades most.

Being in Washington state, maybe you travel short distances to your favorite destinations and therefore don't experience difficult driving conditions to it's fullest. We travel across the Great Plains and far beyond on each of our trips which places us in all kinds of driving conditions.

And so...there I said my peace. :) Happy Greek Easter!

One of our OP's has long taken the position that stock Ford shocks aren't bad if new or nearly new. It was for that reason I installed the new ones Quigley sent me with my front "axle kit."

I did ask the truck / suspension shop I’m taking it to if it was worth looking at the shocks while they were working on the alignment. They told me if the shocks are new leave it alone - not worth doing anything w/ them yet.

I appreciated that as I would have forked over the cash if they told me the shocks were garbage. I’m sure the upgraded shocks are better, but the shop told me the stock ones aren’t terrible - especially when new.

I always appreciate a shop when it could take my money but does not.

Our 24 footer lacks a rear sway bar. And I'm going to leave it that way.

I've owned a number of Rv's since 2001. Yes, a rear sway bar will reduce sway. I concede that point. A stiff sway bar also contributes to porpoising. I will take the sway.

My point is simply this: One can over stiffen a suspension. Stiffer is not always better.