Third Major Blue Ox Casualty

Daveinet wrote:

Mike and Trish wrote:

randallb wrote:
Bolts that come loose normally do dso because they were under torqued or over torqued and then continued to stretch. My guess on the tear outs being discussed is that the base plate attachment points are being stressed during turns. If a RV has a long over hang it is not unusual for the front tires of the toad to go in to scuff. As the tail swings the arc of the toad becomes tighter than the turn angle available in the steering linkage. When this occurs the load at the base plates increase dramatically. I have seen this scuff scenario a few times in smaller gas stations and it is most likely what is causing the "tear out" issues some RVers complain about.
Randy

Wow -- that's the most logical theory I've heard yet. I don't have the expertise to judge, but that makes a lot of sense to me.

I think I'll go check my baseplate bolts now ...

Its a nice theory, but I have scuffed my Jeep several times, even pushed it sideways backing up. My baseplate is adequate. I would also contend that driving through someplace like Chicago after a hard winter puts much more stress on the whole system than any amount of scuffing could do.

I would suggest the more likely scenario is buying cheap steel from overseas, where the quality is not consistent. The company I work for purchases metal from overseas, and it is very difficult to get consistent product.

OK, Lets take care of some of these issues.
1. When my base plate was installed, I used a recently calibrated torque wrench and went back the next day to be sure torque values were as specified. I'm an engineer and was a truck mechanic for a number of years and know how to use a torque wrench.

2.The area of the Silverado under the Blue ox bolt heads and nuts was too little for the loads imposed by those bolts and nuts. It thinned out and this is what loosened the bolts. The thinning was verified by a micrometer. A large heavy washer installed under the bolt heads and nuts would have spread the load to "PROBABLY" (my conclusion) not cause the frame to thin and the bolts to loosen. HOWEVER Blue Ox did not furnish such washers nor did their instructions call for them.

3. The weight of the toad was about 6000#. If you need to know exactly, I can go out and get the weight ticket but that's very close. This is very much under the weight specified by Blue Ox on the tow bar and base plate.

4. I do NOT make sharp turns in or out of fueling places or any other place. In fact, on my rig, an overturn would cause the toad to strike the rear cap before scuffing occurred. It never happened. Beside which, most areas on the way to Alaska where we turn off the road are not paved, so loads imposed are much lower than would be imposed on paved surfaces.

5. Each time the bolts were found loose they were re-torquesd to specs and marked with a pen so I could see if the bolts and nuts were backing off, or the frame was thinning. In each case the bolt/nut position had not moved, but what had been tight became loose. I suppose the bolts Blue Ox furnished could have stretched, but they were grade 5 half inch in diameter and should have been able to hold many times the tension load imposed on them. Furthermore, since they did not stretch when I initially installed them and rechecked them a day later, thinking they would begin to stretch later in the trip is ludicrous. The outline of the bolt head and the nuts in the toad frame where the thinning occurs says overload to me, and probably to most every other engineer.

6. Blaming the problem on issues such as frost heaves in Alaska is just crazy. Frost heaves cause the rig and toad to oscillate in a vertical plane as the coach hobby horses over a heave and the toad follows later. This is all in a vertical plane with no vertical loads being placed on the hitch, hitch mount to the toad and the base plate. How this could cause horizontal bolts in the base plate to loosen is beyond me.

7. I definitely agree that the metal quality in pivots, bolt and pin bearing surfaces and the knuckle is less than desirable. This is what is causing the excess looseness and slop that begins to overload other areas of the hitch bar and base plate and causes them to begin to fail. Regardless, poor engineering design and perhaps inadequate testing is also a major contributor to these problems. Blue Ox's attitude of "Someone must have installed it incorrectly" in all cases is an indication of poor management at the intermediate and higher levels of the company. Rather than acknowledging the problem and fixing it, if "we" ignore it we may lose a single customer, but who cares.

I know there are those out there who have extreme levels of brand loyalty to whatever they're using. Fine. If you want to believe that there's nothing wrong, go ahead. My purpose in replying to this thread was to alert those open minded enough to listen to a potential serious problem with Blue Ox products. Believe it or not, your choice, but I see I am not alone in seeing and reporting problems. And this IS A PROBLEM. Believe it or not, your choice.