Trading in the DP for a Gas....uh oh

barmcd wrote:

rgatijnet1 wrote:
Don't worry about the mountains. In reality you will spend very little time actually on a hill that would put any strain on your drive-train. I put 15,000+ miles a year on our coach, mostly in the Western States, and I would guess that the only time a steep road slows things down is less than 1% of the total time on the road. You will spend most of your time parked and that coach will suit your needs perfectly.

That's true. Mountains tend to be steep, but they don't go on forever. Places like the Texas Hill country tax our diesel truck pulling a 5th wheel more than Colorado does.

And as to Altitude? How long do you spend at 10,000 feet?

Not long. But I spend a lot of time above 7500.

rgatijnet1 wrote:
Don't worry about the mountains. In reality you will spend very little time actually on a hill that would put any strain on your drive-train. I put 15,000+ miles a year on our coach, mostly in the Western States, and I would guess that the only time a steep road slows things down is less than 1% of the total time on the road. You will spend most of your time parked and that coach will suit your needs perfectly.

That's true. Mountains tend to be steep, but they don't go on forever. Places like the Texas Hill country tax our diesel truck pulling a 5th wheel more than Colorado does.

And as to Altitude? How long do you spend at 10,000 feet?

As to the weight, of course they're going to use lighter materials in an effort to keep the weight down, however it won't be in the critical areas, like the framing and box construction. And as noted, seeing as the back part is basically an empty shell, there won't be a lot of weight there either.

Go to any local campground and walk around. Look at a 10-15 year old Newmar - they've been built the same since day 1. Nice video Bruce. The Box beam construction of the chassis has a greater strength to wt ratio over an I beam or c section, so some wt savings right there. I could not tell how the outer skin was attached to the Al framing for the side walls. Are they bonded or mechanically fastened? To the OP its HP to wt that is going to determine performance.

Great insight also! thank you. Yes, ultimately it's going to come down to power:weight, but what determines the max specifications of the chassis? Just weight? Or is power/weight/trans/breaks all taken in to this? I guess what I'm asking, (total rabbit hole here)is when a chassis is maxed out, does that mean the engine is maxed the trans is maxed the brakes are at max capacity or are all those parameters metriced separately?

Brian

You can see about how Newmar builds them HERE.

Newmar uses the same construction method for every unit they build, from the Bay Star Sport to the King Aire. They use "hung wall" construction vs laminated. The strength is built into the framing, not the glue holding it together. If it's not laminated it can't delaminate.

As to the weight, of course they're going to use lighter materials in an effort to keep the weight down, however it won't be in the critical areas, like the framing and box construction. And as noted, seeing as the back part is basically an empty shell, there won't be a lot of weight there either.

Go to any local campground and walk around. Look at a 10-15 year old Newmar - they've been built the same since day 1.

Very nice! We were visiting family in Florida over Christmas and we were staying in a high-end RV park. We saw LOTS of Newmars which led me to assume they were on the higher end of the quality spectrum. What you showed me there was also consistant with what the sales folks have told me over the years.

Thanks for the additional info,

Brian

Hello from a fellow "racer"! Well I only casually race cyclocross but my wife and I are big into road and mountain bikes with summers consisting of a few century charity rides here and there. Our RVs have always been a base camp / cabin for our family as well.

It has been said already but I'll mention again, get that v10 5-star tuned to work out the weird tranny shifts and squeeze a few more hp out of the Ford engine. It will totally change the personality in a better way. We just bought a "new to us" coach and I thought for sure I would find it with the Ford chassis. I was planning to immediately call 5 star once we found the right one for us but we ended up with a Workhorse chassis instead.

I used to tow with a 2000 F250 diesel (7.3 4sp trans) pulling a 35ft fifth wheel at about 19k GCW. This 8.1L Chevy and the 6speed Allison is quieter and strong. Sure, it has to downshift on some hills, but so did my 7.3, and the latter was a noisy annoying racket compared to this roar. I can't compare to a DP, but compared to my truck (which had upgraded shocks and rear airbags) this ride is more controlled and well damped. I expect when we head towards real grades in the western US I'll be roaring along in the slow lane but overall this is a stronger performing powertrain than in my truck. All that to say - I don't think you'll be disappointed with the F53. You may end up adding things like track bars or other suspension mods to help with road manners.

The coach we just bought is a 2011 Tiffin Allegro 35QBA and the Newmar Canyon star of around your year was also on my short list... but that bunkhouse was even harder to find. I've owned a few TTs and 5th wheels over the years and the Newmar we had was the best built by far, and I would own another Newmar hands down. I expect your prospective 09 can only be an improvement since the 01 we had!

Beyond that, all the normal shopping stuff applies - from that distance I'd consider an inspection, etc...

Good luck!

The skin is bonded. In their brochures they highlight the use of Sikaflex, so I'd assume this was what they use.

When I was a kid I lived on a farm. We had Harvestore silos, the blue ones. They used some version of Sikaflex to bond and seal the panels together, along with bolting. Later in life I watched some of these silos taken down. Even after all the bolts were removed they'd still need to mechanically cut the panels apart at the seams, as the Sikaflex was still holding them together. Based on that I'm pretty sure the bonding agent they use in MH construction is a lot stronger than the skin they're bonding.

Being a Newmar fan I tend to check them out whenever we're camping. I have yet to see one where there has been any type of de-bonding going on. I'm sure there's one somewhere, I just haven't seen it yet. I can say the same thing for Monaco/HR, Travel Supreme, and Entegra, as they all use the same construction method.

I can't say that about many others.

Bruce Brown wrote:

prepilot_3ck wrote:

I apreciate the heads up. I've got some time before the deal closes. I'll dig in deeper to the construction quality.

Briab

You can see about how Newmar builds them HERE.

Newmar uses the same construction method for every unit they build, from the Bay Star Sport to the King Aire. They use "hung wall" construction vs laminated. The strength is built into the framing, not the glue holding it together. If it's not laminated it can't delaminate.

As to the weight, of course they're going to use lighter materials in an effort to keep the weight down, however it won't be in the critical areas, like the framing and box construction. And as noted, seeing as the back part is basically an empty shell, there won't be a lot of weight there either.

Go to any local campground and walk around. Look at a 10-15 year old Newmar - they've been built the same since day 1.

Nice video Bruce. The Box beam construction of the chassis has a greater strength to wt ratio over an I beam or c section, so some wt savings right there. I could not tell how the outer skin was attached to the Al framing for the side walls. Are they bonded or mechanically fastened? To the OP its HP to wt that is going to determine performance.

prepilot_3ck wrote:

I apreciate the heads up. I've got some time before the deal closes. I'll dig in deeper to the construction quality.

Briab

You can see about how Newmar builds them HERE.

Newmar uses the same construction method for every unit they build, from the Bay Star Sport to the King Aire. They use "hung wall" construction vs laminated. The strength is built into the framing, not the glue holding it together. If it's not laminated it can't delaminate.

As to the weight, of course they're going to use lighter materials in an effort to keep the weight down, however it won't be in the critical areas, like the framing and box construction. And as noted, seeing as the back part is basically an empty shell, there won't be a lot of weight there either.

Go to any local campground and walk around. Look at a 10-15 year old Newmar - they've been built the same since day 1.

Prepilot_3ck you'll do fine with the Canyon Star. Check the chassis specifications for the model year just to be sure. The Canyon Star toy haulers are build on the 30K lbs GCWR F53 chassis and Newmar lists the unloaded weight at 22,290 lbs which gives you a lot of reserve for stuff based on Newmar's spec for 2016 model year.

The Ford 2016 chassis comes with a six speed transmission and a 6.17 rear end but there's new guarantee you'll have the same under the floor of your new coach. House model year and chassis model years don't always line up.

willald wrote:
..Actually, compared to your older DP you have now, the new one you're looking at with a gasser V10 will probably feel like a drag racer, hahahaha!

Seriously, a gasser engine like the V10 has much better 'throttle response' than a diesel. Especially compared to an older diesel like you have. You step on the accelerator, the V10 will respond appropriately and get moving. A diesel will just grunt and lug. Since it can't drop down a gear and turn higher RPMs like a gasser can, it can't give you the quicker acceleration a gasser can. In terms of acceleration from a dead stop and immediate throttle response, even in a big 40' unit like that, the gasser will feel much quicker. Especially when compared to an older diesel like yours.

Now, like already said, once you get in the moutains and go up a long, steep grade, it will probably be a different story. That is where the diesel shines.

If everything else about the unit you're looking at checks out (quality, floorplan, etc), I would not let the concern over the engine type, drivetrain concern you. You will be happy with it.

Love it. I think this is the perfect summary. Thank you.

Brian