We're looking at a 40' 2006 American Tradition with a cummins 400 ISL, independant front suspension, tile floor and all of the correct goodies. We've never owned a DP, so I need to ask if the 400 ISL is the way to go. The coach has 62K on it and the're asking $144,500. I test drove it and it is quieter that our gasser and ride is much better. My only issue is that it means a new payment and our gasser is paid for. The other major issue is that my dear wife loves the darn thing and told she won't walk into another showroom ever again.Is the 400 ISL on a Spartan chassis a good combination?

American Coach has a reputation for making very nice, high-end coaches. The Spartan chassis with 400 ISL Cummins is a very popular and reliable combination used by a number of coach manufacturers.The key is to determine if the proper maintenance has been done on the drive train. If so, that combination should be pretty bullet-proof.If the coach is in good condition and has a floor plan you like, just make sure you inspect it well for any hidden issues....water leaks, delamination of sidewalls, etc. If the coach has original tires, they should surely be replaced before the sale or a proper allowance be made in the selling price so you can get new tires. We just traded coaches and found that it was generally more easy to get a good deal on DP's listing for more than $100K than those selling for less (in the current economy). I would suggest you should be able to buy most any coach in that price range for something between NADA 'low retail' and wholesale. If you are trading, the only real figure that matters is the difference paid. Obviously, if you trade against a low price, you will get a lower trade.

Greyghost wrote:The other major issue is that my dear wife loves the darn thing and told she won't walk into another showroom ever again.You know the answer to that one. If Momma isn't happy,,,, Payments are always a pain. AKA 'A dead horse' you are dragging around.The ISL is a powerful engine and will push the coach up any grade you can find. Don't hear much concerning Spartan, which maybe a good thing. If the seller has maintenance records take it and enjoy the coach. Otherwise use the lack of records as a bargaining tool. Same with tire date codes. $144K seems OK but offer them $139K and see what happens.Good luck.

NADA does not list a 2006 American Tradition 40' with the Cummins ISL. All the '06 models show CAT 400 hp engines. Are you sure it is a 2006? At any rate, the asking price of $144K is less than low retail for any of the 2006 models listed. NADA data, of course, may not be correct.

My feeling is that the price is a little high, for two reasons: - I assume that any seller (whether dealer or individual) has the sense to ask more than his bottom line, to leave some room for negotiation, and - more importantly, if I look at other coaches listed online around that price, yours looks like an OK deal, but I think there are other coaches I might buy first for that $$$.For instance, look at PPL Motorhomes website. They list lots of used coaches (on consignment) in descending price order. Right now, for around $150k, you can get a 2007 40-ft. Allegro Bus, a 2000 45-ft. Prevost (!), a 2008 42-ft. Phaeton (though underpowered, IMHO, with only a 360 Cummins), or for only $136k, a 2003 45-ft. Monaco Executive. All of those except the Bus have a tag axle, and the Prevost and Monaco have 500-hp engines.The coach you're looking at sound great, but with or without your DW, check out some more alternatives, even if only online. And even if you don't want one of those, you can use them in your negotiations to get a better price. If I were negotiating to buy the coach you're looking at, my first offer would be around $130k (10% under asking), and I wouldn't even consider that playing hardball.

smlranger wrote:NADA does not list a 2006 American Tradition 40' with the Cummins ISL. All the '06 models show CAT 400 hp engines. You are absolutely correct. It's an 05 with a special order 400. Thanks for catching that.

What do you think? | Good Sam Community

23 Replies

JetAonly
Explorer
Aug 04, 2013
Greyghost wrote:
JetAonly - The coach was built in October of 2004 so this engine safely misses the suspect engines. It's also a Fleetwood/American Coach and from the notice you provided they did not ship any engines to Fleetwood/American Coach during the period in question

Thanks so much for the notification though, much appreciated.

To everyone else, thanks for all of the kind thoughts. We're looking forward to the walk through on Friday and hopefully we'll take possession in Reno NV on Saturday. It's a tax thing, we are residents of SD and by taking possession in Reno we save a couple of grand in taxes.

Good news!! Enjoy and see ya on the road.
FormerBoater
Explorer
Aug 03, 2013
Greyghost,

Congratulations!

Great unit,you will get great support from American Coach and Spartan.

Get her weighed and adjust tire air pressure if warranted...I know CA roads are rough in places but she should ride like a dream and handle great in most situations.
Greyghost
Explorer
Aug 03, 2013
JetAonly - The coach was built in October of 2004 so this engine safely misses the suspect engines. It's also a Fleetwood/American Coach and from the notice you provided they did not ship any engines to Fleetwood/American Coach during the period in question

Thanks so much for the notification though, much appreciated.

To everyone else, thanks for all of the kind thoughts. We're looking forward to the walk through on Friday and hopefully we'll take possession in Reno NV on Saturday. It's a tax thing, we are residents of SD and by taking possession in Reno we save a couple of grand in taxes.
wildmanbaker
Explorer
Aug 03, 2013
Congrats on your new MH. You got a pretty good deal on a really great MH. Don't pay too much attention to what some are pointing out to be problems. Just like blowing spark plugs in the V10. One or two happenings do not make a mass problem. Just enjoy!
JetAonly
Explorer
Aug 03, 2013
Sorry I did see this post before. My only concern for you is the ISL wrist pin issue. Here is the notice. I hope this does not apply to you.

This defect involves Cummins ISL CMS5O diesel engines produced for recreational
vehicle applications between October 17,2005 and April 18, 2006. There are 2159
engines in the subject population

The ISL CM850 recreational vehicle ESNs eligible for this campaign range from 46543077 to46603939.

A complete listing of the subject populations by vehicle manufacturer is
attached in Appendix A.

Estimated extent of defect population.

Cummins estimates that approximately 3.3% of the subject population of engines could experience a connecting rod failure.

Description of defect.

The connecting rod contains a machining defect in the wrist pin bushing of the rod that could cause a seizure of the piston pin, which if allowed to progress, can lead to engine failure with the possibility of the rod rupturing the block cavity, oil and debris on the roadway and vehicle crash.

Chronology of events.

Over the later months of 2006, Cummins received reports of ISL CM850 engine failures of recreational vehicles in the field. The failures were occurring on ISL CM850 engines built after October 17, 2005.

In response to these reports, Cummins Service Engineering and Cummins Product
Engineering investigated the failures and coordinated problem solving activities.

On May 11, 2007, these activities led to a management decision to conduct a safety campaign on ISL CM850 recreational vehicle engines built between October 17,2005 and April 18,2006.

To date, Cummins is not aware of any injuries, fatalities, or crashes that were the result of this defect.

Remedy program.

Cummins will recalibrate the engine control module. Additionally, Cummins will
enhance the Engine Protection System enabling it to provide early detection of the
failure mode and avoid more serious engine damage and resultant safety hazard. This
will involve installation of a new valve cover with a crankcase pressure sensor. Prior to
failure, the new crankcase pressure sensor will provide a signal to the dash with a red
light. A red lamp gives an indication to the driver to stop the engine as soon as it can
safely be done The campaign will be completed without charge to engine owners.
Cummins notes and emphasizes that all covered vehicles involved in the campaign were sold with a 5- year or 100,000 mile warranty and are estimated to have extensive warranty coverage remaining on these engines to cover future repairs as needed.

Customer/owner notifications.
Notifications are expected to begin in July 2007, once Cummins is in receipt of the OEM recall authorizations and customer lists.

Appendix A
OEM No. of Engines
Country Coach 94
Foretravel 9
Freightliner Custom Chassis 666
Monaco 818
Spartan 499
Western RV 58
Cummins Distributors 15
Greyghost
Explorer
Jul 30, 2013
Does yours have an Aqua-Hot? You'll never own another coach without it once you have one...........

This is probably the only option I wanted that it didn't have. Once we take possession I'll see if I can post some pic's. The walk through is scheduled for Aug 9 and hopefully we can do the swap in Reno the same day or the next.
paulcardoza
Explorer
Jul 30, 2013
You'll be thrilled with the new coach! It weighs a heck of a lot more than your gasser, so don't expect significant gains in fuel economy. Our 500hp Monaco Executive gets ~~6-7mpg, whether towing or not. We are at ~~45,000#. We tow a Wrangler Unlimited and you can't tell it's back there with the weight of the coach!

Does yours have an Aqua-Hot? You'll never own another coach without it once you have one...........
J-Rooster
Explorer
Jul 29, 2013
Greyghost, congrats on your new coach! Happy Trails, Rooster
emzee
Explorer
Jul 29, 2013
Congratulations!!! Many happy years of travel! :)
smlranger
Explorer
Jul 29, 2013
If you are satisfied with what you got for whatever you paid, that is all that counts. It sounds nice and the American Tradition is a very nice rig.

As far as acceleration, from the DP had for 8 years (36' with a CAT 330) and the one we now have (42' with Cummins 425), diesels are not hot rods in terms of off-the-line acceleration. Also, remember that the gas coach with the big block Chevy engine is probably much lighter than the Tradition you just purchased. Where the diesel will shine (assuming it is running right with proper boost, etc.), is when you get it loaded for travel and a toad hooked to the back and head out into the hills. Plus, you won't have to listen to that gas engine under your feet screaming at 4500 rpm to get you up that hill.

Wishing you and the DW many happy and safe miles.