Why switch to a Residential Refrig, thinking out loud !!

To me, it wasn't worth trying to fix 8 year old Norcold vs going resi. Cooling unit went and if replaced would have been $2K(not Amish) and then what if something else went wrong with it. I have seen my new resi unit online for about $1400 if you can do the work and get you unit in/out. They took out drivers window to pass out Norc and bring in Samsung. I was not able to do myself and the charge was double for the swap, but glad to have more room, just don't like not having backup propane and have to go to inverter power.

Desert Captain wrote:
Don and Moisheh, no my comments are not 20 years out of date. I realize that the the big DP's are leading the charge into the land of all AC electric, more's the pity. The same trend has been taking place in power boats for a number of years as well. What I am trying to bring to this discussion are some of the realities of the average Joe converting his AC/LP to a residential unit thinking it solves all of his problems and creates no new ones. My compliments, by the way, to those who are skilled enough to handle the carpentry and make the conversion look good.

RVs, all RVs, will continue to be equipped with 12 volt systems because they are simple, reliable and efficient. When an RV manufacturer puts in a residential unit it is designed, built and installed specifically for that application. There will be a large battery bank feeding a good sized inverter, the charging system and all of the cabling will be enlarged as well. That residential frig will come with a full factory warranty and if the new owner can live with the reality that the AC consumed by the frig has to come from somewhere then all is well.

Now Take average Joe who rips out his old AC/LP unit and installs a residential unit. Yes he saved about half over the cost of an AC/LP model..... or did he? :h His battery bank will need to be large and in top shape, a 2,000 watt +/- (if not already in place), inverter will need to be installed, perhaps a more powerful charger/converter, some cables enlarged and his generator run time will go up. If he is lucky it will be a break even proposition and over time will probably cost more. The factory warranty on his new frig will in all probability be null and void for having installed it in his RV (read that pesky fine print regarding the requisite installation parameters). :E

Again it comes down to how you use your rig. If being plugged into AC every night is your thing than going to a residential frig has some merit. If you enjoy the option of being off the grid then they really don't make as much sense. As Erma Bombeck once noted "The biggest lie in the English language is: One size fits all." :B

and once again.... Opinions and YMMV.

:C

I have to agree with you on one point. If a coach has no solar I have seen no cost savings in converting to a residential as any residential conversion in a coach where the user expects to dry camp must include a robust solar system. The solar system will return the ability to dry camp for the average RVer but will easily cost as much as the fridge. For the conversions I was involved in I made it very clear that the fridge was only half the equation if they wanted to dry camp. Both were okay with it as it was worth it to them to go to a 22 cubic foot fridge with ice and water in the door. One initially cheaped out a bit on the solar capacity and the following year he finished it the way I suggested.

For those who never dry camp it's a much different story.

Don and Moisheh, no my comments are not 20 years out of date. I realize that the the big DP's are leading the charge into the land of all AC electric, more's the pity. The same trend has been taking place in power boats for a number of years as well. What I am trying to bring to this discussion are some of the realities of the average Joe converting his AC/LP to a residential unit thinking it solves all of his problems and creates no new ones. My compliments, by the way, to those who are skilled enough to handle the carpentry and make the conversion look good.

RVs, all RVs, will continue to be equipped with 12 volt systems because they are simple, reliable and efficient. When an RV manufacturer puts in a residential unit it is designed, built and installed specifically for that application. There will be a large battery bank feeding a good sized inverter, the charging system and all of the cabling will be enlarged as well. That residential frig will come with a full factory warranty and if the new owner can live with the reality that the AC consumed by the frig has to come from somewhere then all is well.

Now Take average Joe who rips out his old AC/LP unit and installs a residential unit. Yes he saved about half over the cost of an AC/LP model..... or did he? :h His battery bank will need to be large and in top shape, a 2,000 watt +/- (if not already in place), inverter will need to be installed, perhaps a more powerful charger/converter, some cables enlarged and his generator run time will go up. If he is lucky it will be a break even proposition and over time will probably cost more. The factory warranty on his new frig will in all probability be null and void for having installed it in his RV (read that pesky fine print regarding the requisite installation parameters). :E

Again it comes down to how you use your rig. If being plugged into AC every night is your thing than going to a residential frig has some merit. If you enjoy the option of being off the grid then they really don't make as much sense. As Erma Bombeck once noted "The biggest lie in the English language is: One size fits all." :B

and once again.... Opinions and YMMV.

:C

You can count us as ones that have had great luck, success with traditional, absorption refrigerators.

Been camping for 14 years now, and in those 14 years, have owned 4 different RVs, all of which had absorption refrigerators. The one we kept the longest (a 34' TT), we kept 9 years before trading to the rig we have now. NEVER, have we had any issues with our refrigerators. Ever. They've always kept our food just as cold as we needed it to be. And, obviously, we've never had a fire issue, either.

Maybe its 'cause we don't put our RVs in storage and forget about them for months allowing critters to build nests where they shouldn't. Ours stays in the driveway, and I always keep a close eye on the cooling unit, vent, etc. and keep it clean. Don't know if thats why or not, but do know that absorption refrigerators has been one component on our RVs that have never, ever been an issue.

I may be in the minority, but I have always liked having a refrigerator that can run on A/C when its available, or LP gas when A/C is not available. And, we don't even really boondock, either. 99.9% of our camping is done at places where I have A/C hookups.

All that said, if one day our refrigerator ever quits or becomes a problem, would I switch to a residential style refrigerator? Maybe. It would just depend on cost and whether or not I could find one that would fit OK without too much difficulty. I could handle setting up the batteries and an inverter to handle the load, thats not a big concern.

I do know that the new Georgetown models like ours (351DS model), many of the new ones are coming with residential refrigerators. However, that comes at a price - you lose the pantry to the side that we have. I've asked DW a few times if she'd be willing to give up that pantry for a larger residential style refrigerator, and the answer is always an emphatic NO. Sooo, not sure if we'd go to a residential one or not. :)

When the In-Laws were staying in the coach, they called to tell us that the fridge wasn't working. I started getting giddy with thoughts of a residential replacement but found out that they just had let the cooling coils in the freezer completely ice over. Once I defrosted the freezer, the 16 year old Dometic Elite side by side got nice and cold in an hour or two.

Someday the darn thing will finally quit on me and I can see if our lowly older gas class A can "handle" a residential fridge. I'm thinking that 2 GC6s could handle an overnight in a parking lot here and there which is probably the extent of our boon docking at this point.

Desert Captain: Your comments about RV's being deigned for low power usage are 20 years out of date. As Don mentioned most of the conversions have been in larger DP's. Any modern DP is an energy hog. Hard to boondock without using a genie once in awhile. There are lots of 110 volt loads: multiple TV's, satellite system, entertainment systems and more. You seem to think that 12 volt systems do not use energy. Not so. Those same DP's have lots of 12 volt energy hogs. This requires the gennie to run and recharge the batteries. Even entry level MH's are coming with factory Residential fridges installed. On shouldn't compare the power usage of an 18 ft. 1985 travel trailer and a modern DP. We have a factory residential in our 08 Dynasty and I would never go back to a fire breathing NoCold. You should also realize that very few people are super happy with the Norcold 1200's.

Moisheh

korbe wrote:

hanko wrote:

korbe wrote:
Can a residential type frig run on propane? If so, I may consider one. But with more and more rigs requiring shore power, the camping experience is definitely evolving.

are you being silly?

Yes

The Amish have been using gas refrigerators in their homes for decades. They are available through places like Lehman's, etc. We have found the Amish services to be among the best for repairing the RV refrigerators. Last year we had a new cooling unit placed in our Norcold by Leon at National Refrigeration and the difference is night/day. Our freezer stays at 0* and the fridge stays right where it's supposed to. Leon explained to us the problem with the fires and how the new cooling unit with a different design was not susceptible to the fires that normally occur.

We have friends who own an island in Canada and they are using a 45 year old gas (propane) residential refrigerator. They live completely off the grid on the island and they shut that refrigerator off every fall and back on every spring.

I do not want a residential, but to each his own. We feel very comfortable with our unit with the 3-year warranty from National Refrigerator.

Dale

Desert Captain......You said..."My point remains that RV's that are designed from the get go to be as non AC dependent as possible (DC lights, fans and pumps), are not the optimum location for a residential unit".

This was the point I was politely trying to get across...your RV was not designed for a residential unit. It's not designed to use much of anything that runs on A/C. The discussion on the previous pages is geared for large RV's, primarily Diesel Pushers, that have the battery power and inverters to support a residential refrigerator.

Next time you go to an RV show, take a look at the Diesel Pushers. They're pretty much all electric now. The only propane item in my coach is a two burner stove. If I had ordered it from the factory, it would have been all electric.

Don, it sounds like you have obviously had very poor luck with absorption refrigeration but your experience is not typical. Of the 5 absorption units I have had on boats and RV's not one has performed as poorly as you describe. Every one of them would freeze meat as hard as a rock (which makes it tough to stick a thermometer into), and the refrigerator space easily maintained 32 to 37 degrees. I often have to move items in my current Norcold to the lower shelves, away from the cooling unit to prevent them from freezing.

I believe that some of the larger residential units may outperform a comparably sized absorption model but my 6.5 Cubic foot Norcold matches the performance of the large residential unit I have at home. Given your history I understand your frustration with the older large model absorption units but even they have been improved dramatically in the last few years.

My point remains that RV's that are designed from the get go to be as non AC dependent as possible (DC lights, fans and pumps), are not the optimum location for a residential unit. A previous poster touts his but admits that he has to run a 7.5Kw generator an additional 90 to 180+ hours a year just to accommodate a unit that was never intend for that application. Yes, you can make them work but at a cost that can easily overcome any initial savings. If you are running a AC/LP refrigeration system you are consuming milli amps at most and and virtually never have to run a generator.

Run whatever works for you and I'll continue to deal with the biggest problem my Norcold provides.... the darn thing often just gets and stays too cold.

:C

Desert Captain.....I guess I didn't express it well. TYPICALLY, changing to a residential refer is done in larger motor homes that already have the room and battery power for it. They are very easy to install and about 1/3rd the price of a new Dometic or Norcold. I've done two in the last six months. The width and depth of a 12 cubic foot Norcold is identical to that of a Samsung. The Samsung is 4" taller and very easy to find that extra space. They require less venting and you do is plug them in.

Don't forget, I owned a Norcold and no matter how well it was working, an absorption type refer will NEVER perform like a residential refer. An absorption unit takes all night to catch up after a hot day. A residential unit stays cold no matter what the weather is.

Next time you put some meat in your absorption unit and have it in there for a day or two, stick a thermometer in it and check the interior temperature. The absorption units just can't hold a temperature for a long period of time. You may wake up in the morning and the refer is 32 degrees, but by noon and after opening it a couple of times it could be as high as 40 degrees. This is why the food never keeps the internal temperature of your best early morning temperature reading.

My statement isn't hard to prove. You certainly can't tell me that your RV refer works as well as your home refer!

Lastly, your Class C has a small 2 door unit, probably a 6 or 8 cubic foot and they always cooled well. Again, the larger motor homes with the big refers were just poorly designed and will never cool as well as a residential unit.