Winnebago Trend

Even in rural Texas, I am seeing ProMasters available for sale and being serviced, so the days of trying to find a Five Star Dodge dealer are gone. FCA (Fiat-Chrysler Autos) seems to be doubling down on the PM in the US, so my confidence on finding parts or service if broken down is high.

The Rialta would be hard to recreate, as a lot of it depends on the VW chassis, which hasn't been seen in the US since 2005. I'd say the Travato is a unit like the Rialta in many ways, even bringing some of the Rialta's quirks as well (the sump pump for the shower pan for example.)

The Trend, OTOH, is a different ballgame. I think it will attract the same cult following as the Rialta, but it doesn't have as many annoying quirks as the Travato. It is a foot fatter, taller, and two feet wider than the Travato, but it isn't huge.

So far, here are a list of things I've read about that are notable about the Trend:

1: The water heater appears to be a Girard heater. You use this somewhat opposite of how you use a normal tank heater. To lower the temperature of the water, you turn the hot water on more, turn the dial on the water heater control lower, or slowly add cold water. Oddball, but for unlimited length hot showers, not a bad trade-off in such a small rig. Beats trying to go into a bath-house where the stuff on the floor starts trying to eat your shower shoes.

2: The drop-down bed. It supports max 450 pounds. The 23B floor plan, you will get acquainted with this bed rather well (it is pretty much a couple inches short of a full queen in both dimensions). Make sure to knock over the seat cushions that are upright before dropping the bed. The 23L has a rear quarter bed... not really queen size, but large enough for two people. With the 23L floorplan, the drop down bed isn't really needed, but it is useful in a pinch to sleep that friend or family member, and is about 3/5 the size of the one in the 23B layout.

3: The generator is a 2800 watt model. It will start the 13.5k BTU/hr A/C with 300 watts to spare (as per Onan's documentation), but you are not going to be running the microwave or even the Keurig coffee maker with the compressor at full tilt.

4: The furnace has a thermostat, but the A/C has separate controls, which are located on the lower part of the unit on the ceiling. Another trade-off (since most "C"s tend to have a single thermostat for heat and A/C these days), but not a deal-killer unless one is too short to reach them, or has range of motion issues with the shoulder.

5: The propane tank is 13 gallons. With overhead for vapor, that is about ten gallons. I highly recommend an Extend-A-Stay unit be installed with this rig, so one can bring a couple 20# bottles on a hitch mounted rack.

6: With a 24 gallon fuel tank, you have 18 gallons of gas for the generator (the last 1/4 will be reserved for the engine), and at the genset running full tilt, that is 36 hours of use... to 72 hours, if the generator is only lightly loaded. One can always use a hitch mounted rack with five gallon fuel cans to extend this if needed.

7: The 23L floorplan has more outside storage by almost a factor of two than the 23B, due to the space taken up by the corner bed. However, the 23B has a bigger bathroom and kitchen.

8: From what I was told, the RV converter is a single stage model, so a three stage converter upgrade is a must. With the limited battery capacity (~110 amp-hours, I'm guessing since there is just a single group 31 AGM battery), there isn't much point in anything but a 300 watt inverter for charging tablets, smartphones, cordless tools, and such. There isn't much outside storage, so I don't think there is much room for a secondary battery bank.

So, for boondocking, the solution is probably a solar array, coupled with having a small 1000 watt generator whose sole goal in life is to power the converter. The onboard genset can do this, but .1 gallon of gasoline used by a 1000 watt generator is definitely more thrifty than 0.2 gallon per hour of a 2800 watt genset. Plus, the 1000 watt generator can be moved a distance away for less vibration/noise.

Of course, I can tee off the propane line near the stove (adding a ball valve after the tee fitting for safety reasons), and plop a Buddy heater on the kitchen counter. This would definitely spare the battery and provide adequate heat, but I rather avoid that unless nothing else will do, especially if the coach is not completely winterized.

Another idea for long boondocking runs is an enclosed cargo trailer with a couple solar panels, a few batteries, and an inverter (so the Trend can be plugged into it for charging its relatively puny-tastic house battery. Expensive, but since I go to a festival and have the same campsite for months on end, having a trailer sitting there with full batteries ready to be plugged into is a better alternative to running a generator at night.

9: No solar, although I'm sure that can be retrofitted. I am not sure how much usable space exists on top, but I'm sure 200-300 watts of panels can be added on with a MPPT controller to keep the AGM house jar topped off.

10: It has heated tanks (electrical), and optional heated drains. Be aware that these eat battery life, as they are electric heating elements, so these are not that usable while boondocking.

Hate to be long-winded, but I like taking the time to doublecheck quirks about a rig before buying.

I just cannot imagine that Winnebago is overlookung the potential to reintroduce the Rialta (or similarly, a retro GM motorcoach) using the Ducato as the pulling agent.

People are into this size MH again (e.g., all the Sprinter Cs).

They need do only one thing this time around to have a runaway success on their hands: Guarantee that Chrysler/Dodge dealerships will do all chassis service.

Hello burlmart, fancy seeing you here. I have the same FP with the Chevy chassis. The Trend is very interesting but I can't convince myself it is worth an upgrade now. My rig is an 07 with 47k mi so I think I can afford to let the market sort out.

No worries. What you write is quite intelligent and apt to these types of new Euro-style motorhomes. I'm just glad to be seeing changes in floorplans other than adding more televisions and a color scheme change or two.

I agree with that 100%... flexibility is something that one just doesn't seem to see in US rigs, while the European offerings from Autosleeper, Hymer, Globecar, Adria, and Westfalia tend to use every square centimeter to the fullest.

Another small downside -- It would have been nice if the Winnebago Trend had more towing capacity... I can't even use a Bumper Dumper with one without going over the tongue weight. However, it is understandable, as the Ducato/ProMaster frame doesn't have the capacity that the Ford/Chevy chassis do. All trade-offs.

mlts22 wrote:
Non-sequitor here,

I wasn't hawking the fp, just wanted to talk about flexibility being a sought-after thing for a long time. Some of the newer flex ideas seem to be rube goldbergs -- excessive for the task. Thinking of the double size murphy bed in some rigs.

Curious to know what current floorplan most closely fits your likes.

Non-sequitor here, but since this is about the Trend, I might as well mention it. This isn't a deal breaker, but it does mean an extra $1000 to factor in the price:

I checked with a dealership to see what type of battery converter the Trend has. It apparently has a single stage model. This is a minor thing, but I'd definitely be chucking it for a Magnum Energy MMS1012 which would give me 50 amps instead of 45 for charging, four stages instead of one... and 1000 watts of PSW goodness so one can plug a Keurig or other small appliance in while on the road without having to fire up a generator.

If the Trend has a single speed water pump, that also should either get an accumulator tank or replaced with a variable speed unit to minimize those late night "burrups".

That was a bad place for the original 24" tube TV for sure - neck twisting. We took it out and did what Phil recommends using a laptop and USB tuner on the dinette table. Now have too much storage space.

I bet the ubiquitous B+ fp I linked above resulted from Born Free's popularity at that time. They made the overcab bed an option w/ an entertainment center and smaller overcab space. They also promoted neat twin sofa beds that would raise at the head end so the overcab TV was then in a perfect spot for the two reclined viewers. You could say that the den was replaced w/ a bedroom. In both cases, the dinette had to be set up - kind of like TV trays.

Mlts, there's a lot of flexibility in that tired old layout. The small shower could store a couple folding bikes too.

If taken a step farther, you can shave off a lot more length and width via a wet bath and a rear door. The TL 211, Born Free Built for Two, and Chinook come to mind, with the Chinook Premier coming in as the smallest, if I recall.

We started out looking at truck canpers. Then conversion vans, then I started following the B+ thread on RV.net. Somehow we just skipped looking at short cabover Cs, where all the rooms are permanently in place. (Now that I think, we got into RVing mainly so our dogs could get into state parks, and at the time, both dogs slept w/ us.)

So, I guess, dogs rule!

I've wondered that myself. With all the technologies we have, be it Schwintek slideouts that work well with lighter rigs, drop-down beds, coupled with higher ceilings, why can't we have more versatile floor plans for these shorter "C"s?

A good look of what can be done with a ProMaster/Ducato chassis is what Hymer sells in the UK. They have floor plans with aisle showers, so only the toilet and and a flip-down sink need dedicated space, drop-down beds, floorplans with beds that sleep width-wise and one climbs up on, so bicycles can fit in a storage compartment underneath, and many other things that are nice touches.

Burl,

It sure would be nice it the B+ manufacturers would ONLY make that cabover area - as shown in the floorplan you show above - a bed instead of storage and a TV.

I've always thought it a bit of a waste to build that area as only for storage and a TV: A cabover bed area can always be used as storage when needed and TVs can be put anywhere nowadays using swing-arms to mount them. That cabover area being a bed seems to me to be the ultimate-in-flexibility way to built an RV - in case more sleeping room is ever needed you have it.

In that FP you show above the TV screen would be best hanging from the cabinets above, or sitting on the dinette, so that a couple of people could comfortabily watch it from the coach. Also if the couch was split into two side-by-side independent lounge chairs, one would REALLY have a nice setup. Compliment that with driver's and passenger's cab seats that swivel to the back then, IMHO, you'd have the ultimate compact B+ (or C?).

Many threads over the past decade have been written on the C forum on optimization compromises in fitting a bed, bath, den, and kitchen into something 24 ft long or less.

The prime impetus to keep it short is usually to go toadless. In essence, if you can remove the bed from the floor, you gain A LOT of shortness (like down to 22 ft).

If you go w/ a cab over bed, it is easy to keep the rig the size of a truck camper, and the queen bed is then permanent, though very elevated for adults.



For B+ rigs, short goodness comes either from a drop down bed, or a den-to-bedroom conversion -- so common. Mine is one of a thousand copies of this very efficient plan. I think one of the Ducato Trends somewhat mirrors it, and adds a drop down on top of that. At 24'+

All I would submit is that it is very easy to do-undo a bed from dinette/sofa. And I'll bet it's as easy to crawl from this super king bed as to get out of the drop down 'queen' for those increasing (age) needs to nite potti.