My "pet" peeve becomes tragic

oldmattb wrote:
A good article and point well taken. I forget that people actually reward their dogs for poor social behavior, and constantly reinforce it. I never meant to suggest that I advocate intimidation and violent force as a dog correction method - apparently others do. Positive reinforcement and operant conditioning work, and are what have been taught in all the dog obedience classes I have attended.

I guess my issue is the dogs that get no training, are bad neighbors, and get no discipline. Just because one can physically control a dog does nopt mean that it doesn't need training. Several years ago, on a public beach, a boxer tried to bite my wife in the face - it did get her glasses. Owners said, "Oh sorry" like that made everything right. A couple weeks ago, a small dog in someone's lap almost bit her arm. Almost daily I have to chase away aggressive, unfenced and unleashed dogs when I walk.

I will agree that the dog in the lap may not be a dominance issue, but I maintain that it is often a symbol of a host of socialization problems that sooner or later will affect other people.

Matt B

chrisnpat wrote:
There is much misunderstanding of dominance theory, pack hierarchy and how canine behaviors relate to the behavior of wolves. Incorrectly blaming behavior as "dominance" is no better (and arguably much worse) than attributing human characteristics to dogs. Here's a position paper on dominance theory from the American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior. Unlike Cesar Milan and his ilk, these are people who really do know what they're talking about.

AVSAB position statement on dominance theory

Just for the record I didn't write this nor did I post it.......

oldmattb wrote:
http://www.kgw.com/news/Beaverton-woman-gets-ticket-for-driving-with-dog-in-lap-209868921.html

"I think it's ridiculous and Barney does too,"

Matt B

YAY!! One down - and thousands to go.....

A little dog is smart enough to figure out that to get the max effect from the open window (always a bad idea anyway, IMO) - they need some "altitude" and the owner's lap offers that. So it's up to the owner to say "you can't DO that". I'm embarrassed to say this, but my own daughter (Bailey-the-Shih-Tzu's "mom") allows him to do this. I've pointed out all the dire things that can happen. She says he "rides quieter" and that's probably true - he's the most annoying dog ON EARTH in the car. However - when he's riding with me - if he so much as moves - he gets the Finger of Doom and the command "SHUT UP AND LIE DOWN". Funny thing - he actually complies. Yes, dominance CAN be a good thing ;-)

http://www.kgw.com/news/Beaverton-woman-gets-ticket-for-driving-with-dog-in-lap-209868921.html

"I think it's ridiculous and Barney does too,"

Matt B

A good article and point well taken. I forget that people actually reward their dogs for poor social behavior, and constantly reinforce it. I never meant to suggest that I advocate intimidation and violent force as a dog correction method - apparently others do. Positive reinforcement and operant conditioning work, and are what have been taught in all the dog obedience classes I have attended.

I guess my issue is the dogs that get no training, are bad neighbors, and get no discipline. Just because one can physically control a dog does nopt mean that it doesn't need training. Several years ago, on a public beach, a boxer tried to bite my wife in the face - it did get her glasses. Owners said, "Oh sorry" like that made everything right. A couple weeks ago, a small dog in someone's lap almost bit her arm. Almost daily I have to chase away aggressive, unfenced and unleashed dogs when I walk.

I will agree that the dog in the lap may not be a dominance issue, but I maintain that it is often a symbol of a host of socialization problems that sooner or later will affect other people.

Matt B

chrisnpat wrote:
There is much misunderstanding of dominance theory, pack hierarchy and how canine behaviors relate to the behavior of wolves. Incorrectly blaming behavior as "dominance" is no better (and arguably much worse) than attributing human characteristics to dogs. Here's a position paper on dominance theory from the American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior. Unlike Cesar Milan and his ilk, these are people who really do know what they're talking about.

AVSAB position statement on dominance theory

I was waiting for the light to change, when we started to go a police officer came up next to me, cell phone in hand and looking at the computer ......


Yes its dangerous we all have bad driving habits that we need to learn not to do.
Bottom line is its a, Me World out there, who cares about the next guy.......

So sad, prays to the Family that lost there child...........

Stefonius wrote:

oldmattb wrote:
Watch for the correlation between the dogs that climb into laps uninvited, and those that crowd out the door first, those that yank on the leash incessantly, those that bark despite being scolded, those that "guard" the owner, those that attempt to bite strangers, those that run away when off leash, those that beg and get their way every time.

Despite your waving it all off on some TV guy, these are all related, and they make dogs into bad neighbors, menaces to others, and driving hazards.

I have seen a person driving with a dog in her lap, smoking, and applying eye makeup in the rear-view. Try to top that!

Matt B

X2! No matter what human characteristics you want to ascribe to your little fuzzy buddy, it's still a dog and it still behaves the way it is genetically programmed to behave. Social order is extremely important to dogs and wolves. They need to know where they fall in the pecking order, and if you don't let them know that you are in charge, they will assume that they are.

My dog wears a body harness which is attached to a lead that attaches to a car-seat mounting loop in the center of the back seat. In the event of an accident, she will be just fine.

There is much misunderstanding of dominance theory, pack hierarchy and how canine behaviors relate to the behavior of wolves. Incorrectly blaming behavior as "dominance" is no better (and arguably much worse) than attributing human characteristics to dogs. Here's a position paper on dominance theory from the American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior. Unlike Cesar Milan and his ilk, these are people who really do know what they're talking about.

AVSAB position statement on dominance theory

oldmattb wrote:
.............

I have seen a person driving with a dog in her lap, smoking, and applying eye makeup in the rear-view. Try to top that!

Matt B

Not trying to top that but just sharing a similar situation. I have witnessed the same man (on more than one occasion) who drove to work in Dallas, TX rush hour traffic using his electric shaver, talking on his cell phone and eating, may times at the same time. Talk about scary!! I was unlucky enough to be on the same commute schedule as he was. :E

I'm sure he was one of those self important types that thinks their time is so much more valuable than anyone else. I've sometimes wondered about him since we moved, I can almost guarantee he caused or was involved in some sort of accident. Hopefully he didn't kill someone.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Back to the topic of alpha wannabe dogs, most of us are familiar with that behavior and know how to correct it. Along those lines I hope that most people reading this forum know better than allow a dog on their lap while driving.

Doesn't hurt to talk about it really.... but sometimes it can be like preaching to the choir. :B

oldmattb wrote:
Watch for the correlation between the dogs that climb into laps uninvited, and those that crowd out the door first, those that yank on the leash incessantly, those that bark despite being scolded, those that "guard" the owner, those that attempt to bite strangers, those that run away when off leash, those that beg and get their way every time.

Despite your waving it all off on some TV guy, these are all related, and they make dogs into bad neighbors, menaces to others, and driving hazards.

I have seen a person driving with a dog in her lap, smoking, and applying eye makeup in the rear-view. Try to top that!

Matt B

X2! No matter what human characteristics you want to ascribe to your little fuzzy buddy, it's still a dog and it still behaves the way it is genetically programmed to behave. Social order is extremely important to dogs and wolves. They need to know where they fall in the pecking order, and if you don't let them know that you are in charge, they will assume that they are.

My dog wears a body harness which is attached to a lead that attaches to a car-seat mounting loop in the center of the back seat. In the event of an accident, she will be just fine.

Watch for the correlation between the dogs that climb into laps uninvited, and those that crowd out the door first, those that yank on the leash incessantly, those that bark despite being scolded, those that "guard" the owner, those that attempt to bite strangers, those that run away when off leash, those that beg and get their way every time.

Despite your waving it all off on some TV guy, these are all related, and they make dogs into bad neighbors, menaces to others, and driving hazards.

I have seen a person driving with a dog in her lap, smoking, and applying eye makeup in the rear-view. Try to top that!

Matt B

Pawz4me wrote:

oldmattb wrote:
Regarding the dog in the lap - the driver thinks the dog is being affectionate. The dog thinks the driver is dirt. That climbing in the lap is the dog's way of showing absolute dominance, not love.

Good grief. Turn of the Cesar Milan stupidity and step away from the TV for awhile. Here's a newsflash--the dogs of the world are NOT trying to take over.

A dog in that situation probably isn't thinking anything other than how much fun he's having.

And ditto what Cat said--It's not always the owners of small dogs. That's of course not a good situation, but most often around here it's people with large 80 and 100 pound dogs on their laps while driving! :E A 10 pound dog you can see over. An 80 pound dog . . . not so much.

:B