As some of you know, Monkey had a major battle with Windows8 after buying a new LT ... well, here's the resolution for anyone interested.I finally got the Window7 disks - and because we're on the road, waited until we got to a 'good internet' area to install it ...Tried numerous times to get this LT to accept the disks, but during the process it continuously blew up windows telling me about errors and other instructions that were unknown to me - in my tech ignorance. So, after several tries - gave it up and returned to the Windows8 program, at least for now. I will eventually return to Windows7 when we get back to Florida and tap into our tech friends - or maybe not, as I have discovered a few options over the past month...Went thru all the programs or applications, whatever we call these things nowadays, and uninstalled everything I don't want ... including the new MSWord program which kept converting all my email into unreadable messes ... once I removed that program, my email and other inputs act normal. Let me tell you, there was a lot of junk on this LT that interfered with smooth operation - at least, it runs much smoother and faster now.I'm expecting a lot of those little apps required updating (news, weather) constantly, so it ate a lot of my hotspot allowance. Who cares if the weather or news updates if you're not watching it? I don't know, but if I want news, I know where to find it... At his point, the last two months, we over-ran our hotspot allowance in both months for the first time in about five years. After deleting "the junk", we used less than half our hotspot this month. So, that says at least something about the non-required updating processes that occur. We also set our updates to "ask and we update all at once" sometimes on a CG wifi, sometimes not. Anyway, it took a lot of time and effort to find those 'unnecessary gems' and boot them out of here - and one problem was, as I discovered finally with my MSWord, as long as the 'buy me - new version' was installed, it would not let my older version act as the default - AND it converted all my incoming documents into unreadable junk - but once I uninstalled the 'buy me - new version' ... my original version works fine as default. SO, there is a way around all the cr---p they install and force a person to buy ... so, generally, I dumped most of the 'new junk', and installed most of my other versions - and it works in an acceptable way now, despite the potential to work better once I get Windows7 installed ... My guess is a lot of younger folks and kids 'NEED' these apps and all the digital world media today to keep up to date with friends etc. instantly - But we find it easier on the mind if we do it when we want, and keep the rest of our time available for places like the Missouri River, Custer Park, Yellowstone, Olympia, Hood, the Oregon Coast, Redwoods, and the California Gold Country, and Death Valley, not necessarily in that order, and not skipping anything interesting along the way ...And, Monkey did manage to save that final hair to rip out the next time we locate or purchase another digital nightmare ... :):):)Happy camping you all, and thanks for all that assisted in the original Windows8 'help me' posts ...

Sorry to hear of the problems you are encountering with installing Windows 7.I just recently built a new computer and being that there were individual components I configured. I installed Windows 7 without any glitches. The new system will boot up in less than 25 seconds from the time the power is turned on. O how I like it when a plan comes together.

I don't understand win7 vs win8. Are you trying to figure out with one is worse?

I think that is what some members have been trying to tell you, but you may not have understood at the time. New Windows systems tend to include a lot of bloatware, apps that are installed on a promo basis to entice you to buy them. Most just take up space and can effect overall performance. It's been a standard procedure with myself to uninstall those first, then install OS updates, and then make my own restore discs.

1492New Windows systems tend to include a lot of bloatware, apps that are installed on a promo basis to entice you to buy them. Most just take up space and can effect overall performance. It's been a standard procedure with myself to uninstall those first, then install OS updates, and then make my own restore discs. I am in the process of getting a new computer. How would I know what to uninstall so I didn't have all that bloat? I am afraid that I could be erasing items that are required to just run the computer. I know what I want to run and I will load those purchased programs. Is there a program, a place, a book, or whatever that tells what items are necessary to run Windows 8 or even describe what each item does? How do I know where to even find the location in the computer to delete these bloatware items? I am pretty computer illiterate.Thank you,LeRoy

Homeless by Choice wrote:1492New Windows systems tend to include a lot of bloatware, apps that are installed on a promo basis to entice you to buy them. Most just take up space and can effect overall performance. It's been a standard procedure with myself to uninstall those first, then install OS updates, and then make my own restore discs. I am in the process of getting a new computer. How would I know what to uninstall so I didn't have all that bloat? I am afraid that I could be erasing items that are required to just run the computer. I know what I want to run and I will load those purchased programs. Is there a program, a place, a book, or whatever that tells what items are necessary to run Windows 8 or even describe what each item does? How do I know where to even find the location in the computer to delete these bloatware items? I am pretty computer illiterate.Thank you,LeRoyI would also be interested a;sp. My 9-mo old desktop, WIN 7, has slowed somewhat, but it too came with a lot of cr-p. I have used CCleaner, Registry repair, Malwarebytes and uninstalled or disabled other crap. No major improvement noted. I'm also afraid to uninstall or disable anything else without a road map or guidance.

The Win7 vs Win8 battle continues :) | Good Sam Community

camperpaul
Explorer
Aug 28, 2013
mgirardo wrote:
ReadyToGo wrote:
As an IT pro, you sure are not up on the marketplace.

Well, he did say he and his wife WERE IT pros. :) Probably 50% of my customers used other "pros" before calling me. I even have customers that have used the only "Mac Authorized" repair center in town and were not happy with the results.
-- snip --
-Michael

"Professional" does not always equate with expert.

Pros get paid for doing something.

Amateurs do the same things because they love doing them.

I have met a lot of expert amateurs and a lot more inept professionals.
ReadyToGo
Explorer
Aug 28, 2013
"Bill Gates wanted a desktop computer in every home, which he got. Unfortunately, he didn't care whether or not any of them had a clue how to use them."

That is true, and now is also true of the tablets. When my wife has people over for beading etc, I spend my time showing them how to do things on either of my tablets
mgirardo
Explorer
Aug 27, 2013
ReadyToGo wrote:
As an IT pro, you sure are not up on the marketplace.

Well, he did say he and his wife WERE IT pros. :) Probably 50% of my customers used other "pros" before calling me. I even have customers that have used the only "Mac Authorized" repair center in town and were not happy with the results.

Bill Gates wanted a desktop computer in every home, which he got. Unfortunately, he didn't care whether or not any of them had a clue how to use them.

-Michael
ReadyToGo
Explorer
Aug 27, 2013
Wintersun: You are really really misinforming everyone regarding OS.
First of all, Windows OS DO NOT require updates weekly and never have, they are monthly and once in a while a special update.

Apple updates at least quarterly and do not tell you about security issues that are open in some cases for many months. ie see their last two updates.
Anti virus programs are free even if they sell a different version unless you are a business.

I don't know what utilities you pay for, but I bet there are free versions available to non businesses.

And as an Ipad owner I can tell you there are many many problems with that OS that are not recognized or fixed by Apple.

As an IT pro, you sure are not up on the marketplace.
burlmart
Explorer
Aug 27, 2013
wintersun wrote:
Windows 8 was designed to compete against Apple's iOS and Google's Android (using code stolen from Oracle Java) on tablets and smartphones. It provides no advantages over Windows 7. Windows 7 has been out for more than 3 years and it still requires weekly patches and bug fixes so it makes no sense to go with Windows 8 which is 3 years behind in this respect. By the way I get a security patch for my Apple computers on average once a year.

Most people would be better served with an Apple computer once they add in the cost for utilities and anti-virus software and the time to keep their computers up and running. I have both Windows and Mac computers and 99% of my fixing time is spent on the Windows computers and my wife and I were both pro IT people.

Many places sell computers to businesses and they have desktop and laptop and netbook computers with Windows 7 installed as well as with Windows 8. I always go for the older operating system that has had more patches released and always after Service Pack 1 has been released.

Suppose MS Windows suddenly got deleted from every computer in the world by a crafty Apple lover’s mal-app, and the OS can never be reloaded.

Now that your ecstatic reaction has subsided a bit :), consider the probability that Linux would quickly be implemented as its replacement, as it has been an eternal Windows cloner as far as productivity apps go.

As to all those MS security patches required over the life of a Windows OS vs the rare need for one in Apple OSs, if I am wrong in my Linux assumption and Apple’s OS replaces Windows on all the world’s machines, and thus Apple’s market share rises from 5% to 95%, do you still think only one security patch per year would suffice?
wintersun
Explorer II
Aug 27, 2013
Windows 8 was designed to compete against Apple's iOS and Google's Android (using code stolen from Oracle Java) on tablets and smartphones. It provides no advantages over Windows 7. Windows 7 has been out for more than 3 years and it still requires weekly patches and bug fixes so it makes no sense to go with Windows 8 which is 3 years behind in this respect. By the way I get a security patch for my Apple computers on average once a year.

Most people would be better served with an Apple computer once they add in the cost for utilities and anti-virus software and the time to keep their computers up and running. I have both Windows and Mac computers and 99% of my fixing time is spent on the Windows computers and my wife and I were both pro IT people.

Many places sell computers to businesses and they have desktop and laptop and netbook computers with Windows 7 installed as well as with Windows 8. I always go for the older operating system that has had more patches released and always after Service Pack 1 has been released.
wintersun
Explorer II
Aug 27, 2013
Windows 8 was designed to compete against Apple's iOS and Google's Android (using code stolen from Oracle Java) on tablets and smartphones. It provides no advantages over Windows 7. Windows 7 has been out for more than 3 years and it still requires weekly patches and bug fixes so it makes no sense to go with Windows 8 which is 3 years behind in this respect. By the way I get a security patch for my Apple computers on average once a year.

Most people would be better served with an Apple computer once they add in the cost for utilities and anti-virus software and the time to keep their computers up and running. I have both Windows and Mac computers and 99% of my fixing time is spent on the Windows computers and my wife and I were both pro IT people.
8_1_Van
Explorer
Aug 25, 2013
I use Windows 8 most of the time and my wife uses Vista Ultimate because one of her programs does not run too good on Windows 7 or 8.
Seattle_Lion
Explorer
Aug 23, 2013
monkey44 wrote:
powderman426 wrote:
I don't understand win7 vs win8. Are you trying to figure out with one is worse?

First, I'll answer this - NO, I like Win7, and dislike Win8 A LOT, so I bought a new LT without knowing about Win8 and how it interacted and messed up my data frequently ... so, we, on here, went through a few threads trying to help me. But I finally figured I don't have the tech knowledge to install Win7 on this Win8 LT - so, instead went one by one and found all the bloat (still doing it actually) and dumped it in the trash can. Now, I'm having some luck with this Win8, at least enough so my programs work and my data stays the way it should.

We're on the road, and traveling, so it's difficult to find a shop that can help me unwind this quickly - each one says, oh,oh, a couple weeks, leave it. I plan to be 500 miles from here in two weeks, and want my LT with me ... :( Bummer ...

It's been a hard ride these past few months too, and beyond the operating problems, learning, etc - it kept eating my hotspot and then Verizon overcharges me because the bloat is updating constantly and eating my allowance. That's over .. finally ... found a little at a time, figured out what it is, and dumped more in the trash than I kept - and saves half my hotspot allotment without all the unnecessary updates it plugs thru every two seconds, it seems.

I think I can help, but you may not like the answer. First, if you really do want to go back to win 7, you need to do a clean install. With a laptop there are a few risks with this. Most significant is that some laptops use drivers that are too new to be included in the "in box" drivers that are on the Win 7 disks. I had this happen with a Dell laptop and the network driver was not in the install disk collection. The only way to get to the Internet (or even your own network) is to use another computer, go to the manufacturer's web site, find the driver, write it to a CD, and then manually install it on the Win 7 box. Once you have that, you can go directly to the manufacturer's site from the LT and download and install all the other stuff.

Knowing that, if you want to go to Win 7, insert the Win 7 install DVD in the DVD player. Restart the computer. If it is properly set up, the machine will boot from the DVD and you can do a clean install. This means you choose to format the disk before the install. If the machine doesn't boot from the DVD, restart again. Hit the key(s) needed to go to the setup menu. At that menu, change the boot order so that the machine boots from the cd/dvd first, then goes to the hard disk. Restart and you can install.

I worked in Redmond at the time of the Win 7 and 8 releases. I had the early betas of both. I just bought a new laptop and selected win 8 professional for it. I don't like the tiles, but the desktop works perfectly. The tiled screen (start screen) is exactly the same as your old start button. If you want to find something. Just start typing. No need to enter it in a box.

Personally, I don't use betas because they almost always require a clean install of the final release. Way more work than I want to do on my own time. Win 8 has a lot of annoying changes. However, it boots super fast and is far more stable than Win 7. I have no use for the so-called "apps", but I do like the efficient way it manages system resources.

Bear in mind that a laptop is a complete system. Most new laptop drivers work on win 7. However, if you bought the system with Win 8, you take some risks installing the older OS. My new Lenovo Thinkpad has Win 8 and the good points outweigh the bad. I love the speed, especially how fast it boots. Win 8 has been around long enough that the applications I use have been optimized for it. I also love Win 7 and will not upgrade my desktop which has Win 7 Ultimate.

If you aren't comfortable with upgrading drivers and other manufacturer software, don't upgrade.

In terms of annoying bloatware, you can easily handle that yourself. Go to the Control Panel and go to uninstall software. If you see stuff you know is not what you want, uninstall it. If you see mysterious looking programs you don't recognize, Google the name of the program. You will find out what it is and you can decide whether to keep it or not.

Last, you no longer need to pay for antivirus and firewall software. Windows Defender is free from Microsoft and does a great job.
strollin
Explorer
Aug 22, 2013
Monkey - Now that you made it clear that what you meant by a hidden icon wasn't a hidden icon at all but the somewhat elusive shutdown function, your rant about it being dumb makes more sense and what I posted about hiding icons on the desktop doesn't apply.

I see your point about it taking more clicks to login and shutdown, to me it's a nit since I tend to leave my computer powered on and don't shutdown and login everyday. An extra click here and there doesn't bother me but you are right that it's less efficient. To many of us, that fact that it boots and shuts down faster makes up for a couple of extra clicks.

One click that I wish I didn't have to make is that I need to click on the desktop tile on the Start screen when Win 8 first boots up. Win 8.1 will give me the ability to set things up so my computer will boot directly to the desktop.

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The Win7 vs Win8 battle continues :)

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