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kVox42's avatar
kVox42
Explorer
Feb 08, 2015

Dry weight dilemma ... from my vehicle manufacturer

First, I'm new to this whole process, but plan to take an extended road trip later this year. I will be traveling solo and I'm perfectly comfortable with minimal amenities. With that said, here's (one of) the early questions I've run into, and I can't get a definitive answer to a VERY IMPORTANT question.

I have a 2010 Golf TDI-standard transmission, which is a fuel-injected turbo diesel. It has lots of torque and plenty of power (as compared to a straight gas model).

I’m looking at small, light-weight camping trailers now available and have come across conflicting information.

My owners manual says the vehicle is rated to tow up to 1,000 lbs.
However, in Europe, (including the UK), the same car is rated up to 725 kilograms - which is 1600 lbs, obviously a significant difference (60%) I’ve also come across reviews, articles and forum posts that list TDI models as being the best towing vehicle for its size in the UK. So my question is ... what explains the difference. I have written (and called) VW-USA and although they're friendly enough, all they will say is that "there's a difference in the 2 vehicles". When I ask for specifics I get basically corporate stonewalling.

I have no desire or intention of “maxing out” what I will tow. In fact, I'm focused on keeping the trailer as light as possible. However, the 60% difference is confusing. Does anyone know if there IS a difference between the European and USA versions of the vehicle? If so, what exactly is it?

Horsepower?
Engine size (displacement)?
Breaking system?
Suspension?
Is it an emissions issue?
Bottom line is, all I'm trying to find out is can my US golf pull up to 1000 or up to 1600 pounds?

Kevin
Raleigh, NC

21 Replies

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  • GoPackGo's avatar
    GoPackGo
    Explorer
    Feb 09, 2015
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    You state that you have a manual transmission. The weak link there will be the clutch.

    Do the European models use a different transaxle assembly with possibly a more heavy duty or larger clutch ?

    As someone already stated, are the European and USA engines rated at the same HP ? They very well might not be due to different emissions requirements.

    You're going to have to be careful of that clutch when you maneuver in tight places (campgrounds), going back and forth between 1st and reverse when getting into campsites. It was never designed for that.

    Tim
  • SlowBro's avatar
    SlowBro
    Explorer III
    Feb 09, 2015
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    bikendan wrote:
    and don't use website/brochure "dry" weights. No trailer leaves the factory weighing that.


    X2. Definitely figure on gross weights, not dry weights.

    Do you know your car's GCWR? You'll need to know that. Your occupants, coolers, lunch, how much gas in the tank, floor mats, all that will take away from the GCWR.

    At that weight range you're either going to be in a fiberglass teardrop or a fabric pop-up. Another option: A Harbor Freight trailer loaded up with an ordinary tent and all the comforts of home. You might find that's better in the long run. Probably cheaper, too :B
  • wbwood's avatar
    wbwood
    Explorer
    Feb 09, 2015
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    beemerphile1 wrote:
    Campfire Time wrote:
    Put it all aside for a moment and ask yourself a question. If you chose to tow a trailer that's over the rated capacity for the vehicle, even if you confirm from the engineer that designed it that it's capable, do you think you are are immune to a civil suit should you get into and injury or death related accident?

    And if such an accident were to occur, how hard will it be to obtain insurance coverage after the fact...


    I doubt the decision on whether or not to sue after an at-fault accident will be based on if the tow ratings are exceeded. To prove negligence one would have to be grossly over the rating, not a few hundred pounds.

    Whether or not you are sued depends on how deep your pockets are.


    A few hundred lbs won't make much of a difference between 8000 to 8600...but from 1000 to 1600 is a big difference. On the verger of twice the weight. Sorta like telling a someone rated at 5000 lbs that they can tow 7500-8000lbs....
  • wbwood's avatar
    wbwood
    Explorer
    Feb 09, 2015
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    And when you get in an accident (heaven forbid), your defense will be that my car can tow that much in the UK. Hopefully no one get's hurt or killed in that accident.
  • beemerphile1's avatar
    beemerphile1
    Explorer
    Feb 09, 2015
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    Campfire Time wrote:
    Put it all aside for a moment and ask yourself a question. If you chose to tow a trailer that's over the rated capacity for the vehicle, even if you confirm from the engineer that designed it that it's capable, do you think you are are immune to a civil suit should you get into and injury or death related accident?

    And if such an accident were to occur, how hard will it be to obtain insurance coverage after the fact...


    I doubt the decision on whether or not to sue after an at-fault accident will be based on if the tow ratings are exceeded. To prove negligence one would have to be grossly over the rating, not a few hundred pounds.

    Whether or not you are sued depends on how deep your pockets are.
  • Campfire_Time's avatar
    Campfire_Time
    Explorer
    Feb 09, 2015
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    Put it all aside for a moment and ask yourself a question. If you chose to tow a trailer that's over the rated capacity for the vehicle, even if you confirm from the engineer that designed it that it's capable, do you think you are are immune to a civil suit should you get into and injury or death related accident?

    And if such an accident were to occur, how hard will it be to obtain insurance coverage after the fact?

    RobertRyan wrote:
    mdamerell wrote:
    US vs Europe: Why different tow ratings.

    Long piece but gets to the basic heart of the matter.
    Europe uses a lower tongue weight (4-7%) and a lower tow speed to compensate for the instability of the low tongue weight. The US travels at higher road speeds and thus requires a 10-15% tongue weight to maintain stability.


    No that does not explain it at all. We are not Europe, but you can tow at 65-70mph with a European Caravan. Problem is more the tiny load capacity and instability on uneven surfaces


    It does for the US. You're last comment says it all. We don't have problems with instability on uneven surfaces.
  • sail2liv's avatar
    sail2liv
    Explorer
    Feb 09, 2015
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    you probably should lock out the od trans....or may damage trans....good bye mileage welcome to towing world......
  • beemerphile1's avatar
    beemerphile1
    Explorer
    Feb 09, 2015
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    Yes, you can tow 1,600 pounds. I suggest for safety that you have a trailer with brakes.

    I tow with my little Pontiac. It has a rating of 1,500# in the USA but a rating of 2,200# in the UK if the trailer has brakes.

    My Aliner weighs just under 2,000# fully loaded and I have towed it about 20,000 miles now with no trouble.
  • RobertRyan's avatar
    RobertRyan
    Explorer
    Feb 09, 2015
    Copy Link
    mdamerell wrote:
    US vs Europe: Why different tow ratings.

    Long piece but gets to the basic heart of the matter.
    Europe uses a lower tongue weight (4-7%) and a lower tow speed to compensate for the instability of the low tongue weight. The US travels at higher road speeds and thus requires a 10-15% tongue weight to maintain stability.


    No that does not explain it at all. We are not Europe, but you can tow at 65-70mph with a European Caravan. Problem is more the tiny load capacity and instability on uneven surfaces
  • bikendan's avatar
    bikendan
    Explorer
    Feb 09, 2015
    Copy Link
    Only super lightweight specialty tent trailers would meet those specs, especially tongue weight.
    and don't use website/brochure "dry" weights. No trailer leaves the factory weighing that.

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weight dilemma ... from my vehicle manufacturer","id":"message:1600307","revisionNum":1,"repliesCount":21,"author":{"__ref":"User:user:189153"},"depth":0,"hasGivenKudo":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:RVNewbiesforum-board"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:1600307"},"readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:1600307"},"body":"First, I'm new to this whole process, but plan to take an extended road trip later this year. I will be traveling solo and I'm perfectly comfortable with minimal amenities. With that said, here's (one of) the early questions I've run into, and I can't get a definitive answer to a VERY IMPORTANT question.

I have a 2010 Golf TDI-standard transmission, which is a fuel-injected turbo diesel. It has lots of torque and plenty of power (as compared to a straight gas model).

I’m looking at small, light-weight camping trailers now available and have come across conflicting information.

My owners manual says the vehicle is rated to tow up to 1,000 lbs.
However, in Europe, (including the UK), the same car is rated up to 725 kilograms - which is 1600 lbs, obviously a significant difference (60%) I’ve also come across reviews, articles and forum posts that list TDI models as being the best towing vehicle for its size in the UK. So my question is ... what explains the difference. I have written (and called) VW-USA and although they're friendly enough, all they will say is that \"there's a difference in the 2 vehicles\". When I ask for specifics I get basically corporate stonewalling.

I have no desire or intention of “maxing out” what I will tow. In fact, I'm focused on keeping the trailer as light as possible. However, the 60% difference is confusing. Does anyone know if there IS a difference between the European and USA versions of the vehicle? If so, what exactly is it?

Horsepower?
Engine size (displacement)?
Breaking system?
Suspension?
Is it an emissions issue?
Bottom line is, all I'm trying to find out is can my US golf pull up to 1000 or up to 1600 pounds?

Kevin
Raleigh, NC","body@stringLength":"1798","rawBody":"First, I'm new to this whole process, but plan to take an extended road trip later this year. I will be traveling solo and I'm perfectly comfortable with minimal amenities. With that said, here's (one of) the early questions I've run into, and I can't get a definitive answer to a VERY IMPORTANT question.

I have a 2010 Golf TDI-standard transmission, which is a fuel-injected turbo diesel. It has lots of torque and plenty of power (as compared to a straight gas model).

I’m looking at small, light-weight camping trailers now available and have come across conflicting information.

My owners manual says the vehicle is rated to tow up to 1,000 lbs.
However, in Europe, (including the UK), the same car is rated up to 725 kilograms - which is 1600 lbs, obviously a significant difference (60%) I’ve also come across reviews, articles and forum posts that list TDI models as being the best towing vehicle for its size in the UK. So my question is ... what explains the difference. I have written (and called) VW-USA and although they're friendly enough, all they will say is that \"there's a difference in the 2 vehicles\". When I ask for specifics I get basically corporate stonewalling.

I have no desire or intention of “maxing out” what I will tow. In fact, I'm focused on keeping the trailer as light as possible. However, the 60% difference is confusing. Does anyone know if there IS a difference between the European and USA versions of the vehicle? If so, what exactly is it?

Horsepower?
Engine size (displacement)?
Breaking system?
Suspension?
Is it an emissions issue?
Bottom line is, all I'm trying to find out is can my US golf pull up to 1000 or up to 1600 pounds?

Kevin
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With that said, here's 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Dry weight dilemma ... from my vehicle manufacturer","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:1600328"},"body":"You state that you have a manual transmission. The weak link there will be the clutch.

Do the European models use a different transaxle assembly with possibly a more heavy duty or larger clutch ?

As someone already stated, are the European and USA engines rated at the same HP ? They very well might not be due to different emissions requirements.

You're going to have to be careful of that clutch when you maneuver in tight places (campgrounds), going back and forth between 1st and reverse when getting into campsites. It was never designed for that.

Tim","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2015-02-09T15:01:30.000-08:00","lastPublishTime":"2015-02-09T15:01:30.000-08:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":300},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:RVNewbies/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:RVNewbiesforum-board/message:1600307/message:1600328","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"body@stringLength":"600","rawBody":"You state that you have a manual transmission. The weak link there will be the clutch.

Do the European models use a different transaxle assembly with possibly a more heavy duty or larger clutch ?

As someone already stated, are the European and USA engines rated at the same HP ? They very well might not be due to different emissions requirements.

You're going to have to be careful of that clutch when you maneuver in tight places (campgrounds), going back and forth between 1st and reverse when getting into campsites. It was never designed for that.

Tim","images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"timeToRead":1,"currentRevision":{"__ref":"Revision:revision:1600328_1"},"latestVersion":null,"messagePolicies":{"__typename":"MessagePolicies","canModerateSpamMessage":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":{"__typename":"FailureReason","message":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","key":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","args":[]}}},"customFields":[]},"Rank:rank:40":{"__typename":"Rank","id":"rank:40","position":31,"name":"Explorer III","color":"333333","icon":null,"rankStyle":"TEXT"},"User:user:309165":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:309165","uid":309165,"login":"SlowBro","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2015-01-18T13:19:24.000-08:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-2.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:40"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:309165"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:1600327":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:1600327","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1600327":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:309165"},"id":"message:1600327","revisionNum":1,"uid":1600327,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:RVNewbiesforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:1600307"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:1600307"},"subject":"Re: Dry weight dilemma ... from my vehicle manufacturer","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:1600327"},"body":"
bikendan wrote:
and don't use website/brochure \"dry\" weights. No trailer leaves the factory weighing that.


X2. Definitely figure on gross weights, not dry weights.

Do you know your car's GCWR? You'll need to know that. Your occupants, coolers, lunch, how much gas in the tank, floor mats, all that will take away from the GCWR.

At that weight range you're either going to be in a fiberglass teardrop or a fabric pop-up. Another option: A Harbor Freight trailer loaded up with an ordinary tent and all the comforts of home. You might find that's better in the long run. Probably cheaper, too :B","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2015-02-09T13:28:41.000-08:00","lastPublishTime":"2015-02-09T13:28:41.000-08:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":300},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:RVNewbies/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:RVNewbiesforum-board/message:1600307/message:1600327","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"body@stringLength":"656","rawBody":"
bikendan wrote:
and don't use website/brochure \"dry\" weights. No trailer leaves the factory weighing that.


X2. Definitely figure on gross weights, not dry weights.

Do you know your car's GCWR? You'll need to know that. Your occupants, coolers, lunch, how much gas in the tank, floor mats, all that will take away from the GCWR.

At that weight range you're either going to be in a fiberglass teardrop or a fabric pop-up. Another option: A Harbor Freight trailer loaded up with an ordinary tent and all the comforts of home. You might find that's better in the long run. Probably cheaper, too :B","images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"timeToRead":1,"currentRevision":{"__ref":"Revision:revision:1600327_1"},"latestVersion":null,"messagePolicies":{"__typename":"MessagePolicies","canModerateSpamMessage":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":{"__typename":"FailureReason","message":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","key":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","args":[]}}},"customFields":[]},"User:user:367659":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:367659","uid":367659,"login":"wbwood","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2005-05-01T09:46:56.000-07:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-11.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:42"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:367659"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:1600326":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:1600326","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1600326":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:367659"},"id":"message:1600326","revisionNum":1,"uid":1600326,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:RVNewbiesforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:1600307"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:1600307"},"subject":"Re: Dry weight dilemma ... from my vehicle manufacturer","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:1600326"},"body":"
beemerphile1 wrote:
Campfire Time wrote:
Put it all aside for a moment and ask yourself a question. If you chose to tow a trailer that's over the rated capacity for the vehicle, even if you confirm from the engineer that designed it that it's capable, do you think you are are immune to a civil suit should you get into and injury or death related accident?

And if such an accident were to occur, how hard will it be to obtain insurance coverage after the fact...


I doubt the decision on whether or not to sue after an at-fault accident will be based on if the tow ratings are exceeded. To prove negligence one would have to be grossly over the rating, not a few hundred pounds.

Whether or not you are sued depends on how deep your pockets are.


A few hundred lbs won't make much of a difference between 8000 to 8600...but from 1000 to 1600 is a big difference. On the verger of twice the weight. Sorta like telling a someone rated at 5000 lbs that they can tow 7500-8000lbs....","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2015-02-09T10:51:25.000-08:00","lastPublishTime":"2015-02-09T10:51:25.000-08:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":300},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:RVNewbies/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:RVNewbiesforum-board/message:1600307/message:1600326","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"body@stringLength":"1083","rawBody":"
beemerphile1 wrote:
Campfire Time wrote:
Put it all aside for a moment and ask yourself a question. If you chose to tow a trailer that's over the rated capacity for the vehicle, even if you confirm from the engineer that designed it that it's capable, do you think you are are immune to a civil suit should you get into and injury or death related accident?

And if such an accident were to occur, how hard will it be to obtain insurance coverage after the fact...


I doubt the decision on whether or not to sue after an at-fault accident will be based on if the tow ratings are exceeded. To prove negligence one would have to be grossly over the rating, not a few hundred pounds.

Whether or not you are sued depends on how deep your pockets are.


A few hundred lbs won't make much of a difference between 8000 to 8600...but from 1000 to 1600 is a big difference. On the verger of twice the weight. Sorta like telling a someone rated at 5000 lbs that they can tow 7500-8000lbs....","images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"timeToRead":1,"currentRevision":{"__ref":"Revision:revision:1600326_1"},"latestVersion":null,"messagePolicies":{"__typename":"MessagePolicies","canModerateSpamMessage":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":{"__typename":"FailureReason","message":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","key":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","args":[]}}},"customFields":[]},"ModerationData:moderation_data:1600325":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:1600325","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1600325":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:367659"},"id":"message:1600325","revisionNum":1,"uid":1600325,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:RVNewbiesforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:1600307"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:1600307"},"subject":"Re: Dry weight dilemma ... from my vehicle manufacturer","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:1600325"},"body":"And when you get in an accident (heaven forbid), your defense will be that my car can tow that much in the UK. Hopefully no one get's hurt or killed in that accident.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"166","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2015-02-09T10:50:10.000-08:00","lastPublishTime":"2015-02-09T10:50:10.000-08:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":300},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:RVNewbies/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:RVNewbiesforum-board/message:1600307/message:1600325","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"body@stringLength":"166","rawBody":"And when you get in an accident (heaven forbid), your defense will be that my car can tow that much in the UK. Hopefully no one get's hurt or killed in that accident.","images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"timeToRead":1,"currentRevision":{"__ref":"Revision:revision:1600325_1"},"latestVersion":null,"messagePolicies":{"__typename":"MessagePolicies","canModerateSpamMessage":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":{"__typename":"FailureReason","message":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","key":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","args":[]}}}},"User:user:225":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:225","uid":225,"login":"beemerphile1","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2007-04-20T08:22:45.000-07:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-10.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:42"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:225"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:1600324":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:1600324","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1600324":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:225"},"id":"message:1600324","revisionNum":1,"uid":1600324,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:RVNewbiesforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:1600307"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:1600307"},"subject":"Re: Dry weight dilemma ... from my vehicle manufacturer","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:1600324"},"body":"
Campfire Time wrote:
Put it all aside for a moment and ask yourself a question. If you chose to tow a trailer that's over the rated capacity for the vehicle, even if you confirm from the engineer that designed it that it's capable, do you think you are are immune to a civil suit should you get into and injury or death related accident?

And if such an accident were to occur, how hard will it be to obtain insurance coverage after the fact...


I doubt the decision on whether or not to sue after an at-fault accident will be based on if the tow ratings are exceeded. To prove negligence one would have to be grossly over the rating, not a few hundred pounds.

Whether or not you are sued depends on how deep your pockets are.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2015-02-09T09:48:26.000-08:00","lastPublishTime":"2015-02-09T09:48:26.000-08:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":300},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:RVNewbies/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:RVNewbiesforum-board/message:1600307/message:1600324","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"body@stringLength":"789","rawBody":"
Campfire Time wrote:
Put it all aside for a moment and ask yourself a question. If you chose to tow a trailer that's over the rated capacity for the vehicle, even if you confirm from the engineer that designed it that it's capable, do you think you are are immune to a civil suit should you get into and injury or death related accident?

And if such an accident were to occur, how hard will it be to obtain insurance coverage after the fact...


I doubt the decision on whether or not to sue after an at-fault accident will be based on if the tow ratings are exceeded. To prove negligence one would have to be grossly over the rating, not a few hundred pounds.

Whether or not you are sued depends on how deep your pockets are.","images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"timeToRead":1,"currentRevision":{"__ref":"Revision:revision:1600324_1"},"latestVersion":null,"messagePolicies":{"__typename":"MessagePolicies","canModerateSpamMessage":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":{"__typename":"FailureReason","message":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","key":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","args":[]}}}},"User:user:303690":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:303690","uid":303690,"login":"Campfire_Time","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2007-07-20T09:44:03.000-07:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-8.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:42"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:303690"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:1600323":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:1600323","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1600323":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:303690"},"id":"message:1600323","revisionNum":1,"uid":1600323,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:RVNewbiesforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:1600307"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:1600307"},"subject":"Re: Dry weight dilemma ... from my vehicle manufacturer","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:1600323"},"body":"Put it all aside for a moment and ask yourself a question. If you chose to tow a trailer that's over the rated capacity for the vehicle, even if you confirm from the engineer that designed it that it's capable, do you think you are are immune to a civil suit should you get into and injury or death related accident?

And if such an accident were to occur, how hard will it be to obtain insurance coverage after the fact?

RobertRyan wrote:
mdamerell wrote:
US vs Europe: Why different tow ratings.

Long piece but gets to the basic heart of the matter.
Europe uses a lower tongue weight (4-7%) and a lower tow speed to compensate for the instability of the low tongue weight. The US travels at higher road speeds and thus requires a 10-15% tongue weight to maintain stability.


No that does not explain it at all. We are not Europe, but you can tow at 65-70mph with a European Caravan. Problem is more the tiny load capacity and instability on uneven surfaces


It does for the US. You're last comment says it all. We don't have problems with instability on uneven surfaces.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2015-02-09T06:52:57.000-08:00","lastPublishTime":"2015-02-09T06:52:57.000-08:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":300},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:RVNewbies/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:RVNewbiesforum-board/message:1600307/message:1600323","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"body@stringLength":"1312","rawBody":"Put it all aside for a moment and ask yourself a question. If you chose to tow a trailer that's over the rated capacity for the vehicle, even if you confirm from the engineer that designed it that it's capable, do you think you are are immune to a civil suit should you get into and injury or death related accident?

And if such an accident were to occur, how hard will it be to obtain insurance coverage after the fact?

RobertRyan wrote:
mdamerell wrote:
US vs Europe: Why different tow ratings.

Long piece but gets to the basic heart of the matter.
Europe uses a lower tongue weight (4-7%) and a lower tow speed to compensate for the instability of the low tongue weight. The US travels at higher road speeds and thus requires a 10-15% tongue weight to maintain stability.


No that does not explain it at all. We are not Europe, but you can tow at 65-70mph with a European Caravan. Problem is more the tiny load capacity and instability on uneven surfaces


It does for the US. You're last comment says it all. We don't have problems with instability on uneven surfaces.","images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"timeToRead":1,"currentRevision":{"__ref":"Revision:revision:1600323_1"},"latestVersion":null,"messagePolicies":{"__typename":"MessagePolicies","canModerateSpamMessage":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":{"__typename":"FailureReason","message":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","key":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","args":[]}}}},"User:user:31123":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:31123","uid":31123,"login":"sail2liv","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2012-05-08T06:45:47.000-07:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-11.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:42"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:31123"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:1600322":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:1600322","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1600322":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:31123"},"id":"message:1600322","revisionNum":1,"uid":1600322,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:RVNewbiesforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:1600307"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:1600307"},"subject":"Re: Dry weight dilemma ... from my vehicle manufacturer","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:1600322"},"body":"you probably should lock out the od trans....or may damage trans....good bye mileage welcome to towing world......","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"117","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2015-02-09T04:24:44.000-08:00","lastPublishTime":"2015-02-09T04:24:44.000-08:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":300},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:RVNewbies/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:RVNewbiesforum-board/message:1600307/message:1600322","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"body@stringLength":"117","rawBody":"you probably should lock out the od trans....or may damage trans....good bye mileage welcome to towing world......","images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"timeToRead":1,"currentRevision":{"__ref":"Revision:revision:1600322_1"},"latestVersion":null,"messagePolicies":{"__typename":"MessagePolicies","canModerateSpamMessage":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":{"__typename":"FailureReason","message":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","key":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","args":[]}}}},"ModerationData:moderation_data:1600321":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:1600321","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1600321":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:225"},"id":"message:1600321","revisionNum":1,"uid":1600321,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:RVNewbiesforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:1600307"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:1600307"},"subject":"Re: Dry weight dilemma ... from my vehicle manufacturer","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:1600321"},"body":"Yes, you can tow 1,600 pounds. I suggest for safety that you have a trailer with brakes.

I tow with my little Pontiac. It has a rating of 1,500# in the USA but a rating of 2,200# in the UK if the trailer has brakes.

My Aliner weighs just under 2,000# fully loaded and I have towed it about 20,000 miles now with no trouble.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2015-02-09T03:57:38.000-08:00","lastPublishTime":"2015-02-09T03:57:38.000-08:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":300},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:RVNewbies/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:RVNewbiesforum-board/message:1600307/message:1600321","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"body@stringLength":"347","rawBody":"Yes, you can tow 1,600 pounds. I suggest for safety that you have a trailer with brakes.

I tow with my little Pontiac. It has a rating of 1,500# in the USA but a rating of 2,200# in the UK if the trailer has brakes.

My Aliner weighs just under 2,000# fully loaded and I have towed it about 20,000 miles now with no trouble.","images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"timeToRead":1,"currentRevision":{"__ref":"Revision:revision:1600321_1"},"latestVersion":null,"messagePolicies":{"__typename":"MessagePolicies","canModerateSpamMessage":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":{"__typename":"FailureReason","message":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","key":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","args":[]}}}},"User:user:24570":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:24570","uid":24570,"login":"RobertRyan","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2008-03-15T23:05:39.000-07:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-4.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:42"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:24570"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:1600320":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:1600320","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1600320":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:24570"},"id":"message:1600320","revisionNum":1,"uid":1600320,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:RVNewbiesforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:1600307"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:1600307"},"subject":"Re: Dry weight dilemma ... from my vehicle manufacturer","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:1600320"},"body":"
mdamerell wrote:
US vs Europe: Why different tow ratings.

Long piece but gets to the basic heart of the matter.
Europe uses a lower tongue weight (4-7%) and a lower tow speed to compensate for the instability of the low tongue weight. The US travels at higher road speeds and thus requires a 10-15% tongue weight to maintain stability.


No that does not explain it at all. We are not Europe, but you can tow at 65-70mph with a European Caravan. Problem is more the tiny load capacity and instability on uneven surfaces","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2015-02-08T20:05:22.000-08:00","lastPublishTime":"2015-02-08T20:05:22.000-08:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":301},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:RVNewbies/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:RVNewbiesforum-board/message:1600307/message:1600320","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"body@stringLength":"696","rawBody":"
mdamerell wrote:
US vs Europe: Why different tow ratings.

Long piece but gets to the basic heart of the matter.
Europe uses a lower tongue weight (4-7%) and a lower tow speed to compensate for the instability of the low tongue weight. The US travels at higher road speeds and thus requires a 10-15% tongue weight to maintain stability.


No that does not explain it at all. We are not Europe, but you can tow at 65-70mph with a European Caravan. Problem is more the tiny load capacity and instability on uneven surfaces","images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"timeToRead":1,"currentRevision":{"__ref":"Revision:revision:1600320_1"},"latestVersion":null,"messagePolicies":{"__typename":"MessagePolicies","canModerateSpamMessage":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":{"__typename":"FailureReason","message":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","key":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","args":[]}}}},"User:user:72388":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:72388","uid":72388,"login":"bikendan","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2005-11-20T23:48:39.000-08:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-12.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:42"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:72388"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:1600319":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:1600319","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1600319":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:72388"},"id":"message:1600319","revisionNum":1,"uid":1600319,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:RVNewbiesforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:1600307"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:1600307"},"subject":"Re: Dry weight dilemma ... from my vehicle manufacturer","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:1600319"},"body":"Only super lightweight specialty tent trailers would meet those specs, especially tongue weight.
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