Grit dog wrote:
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BUT from a safety standpoint apples to apples, there is no additional "safety" to be gained in a 1 ton srw. Other than a 3/4 ton may need some supplemental rear suspension as the springs are typically softer. But even in that case, the "safety" aspect is lie with the owner to recognize a and possibly rectify an obvious and easily remedied condition.
Thanks grit-- and this (rear suspension) can be accomplished with air bags or other things as needed, as I understand it.. ?
Grit dog wrote:
Lol, not sure I am either, but rest assured, this conversation will most likely end up the same.
As an engineer, you would look at the individual components and see if the sum of those components is the same for 2 different "things".
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Typical class 2 trucks (8 lug 3/4 ton trucks, please some try hard, don't bring up the old 7 lug Fords and 1500HD GMs) are the same truck as the Class 3 single wheel counterparts, but they are intentionally de-rated to fit within this weight class.
You can do a he said/she said argument about why, but practical application is it allows companies to have HD pickups without having to maintain DOT driver files. It allows HD pickups to run on "no commercial traffic" highways in states that have those restrictions. It allows Joe blow to own a HD pickup and park it in his overly covenanted cookie cutter subdivision without the HOA "cops" hassling him.
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BUT the most important part is the first part. Same axles, same brakes, same frame, same wheels, same drivetrain, same, same, same = its not unsafe to do "1 ton" duties with a 3/4 ton.
Thanks here too, grit-- this aligns with other things I have read (re: class delineation). esp. when you look at
ShinerBlock's truck specs this comes out- the 2500SRW and 3500SRW are nearly identical. Which is what I couldn't square-up.. This discussion has helped me greatly. I have also gone back and read more threads on this forum (as recently as last month) and I have learned more re-reading them in light of discussion here. I admit reading them the first time around I missed some of the nuances.
rhagfo wrote:
Grit dog wrote:
Except from a safety standpoint, a 3/4 and a 1 ton srw ARE the same trucks
Well NOT ALWAYS the SAME, there can be differences in tires, sizes and capacities, NOT always but it needs watching.
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Way too many Hungary lawyers out there now to gamble for me.
I took it one step further, we bought a 2016 Ram 3500 DRW, currently no issue with payload. The hips, well you get use to them and they become less of an issue.
Personally if I were you I would be looking for a 3500.
thanks rhagfo-- I appreciate your input. I agree that the newer trucks are more capable than the older trucks. And I can totally appreciate the payload limits for the average customer who doesn't want to do all the math, or consider the tire ratings.
I tend towards wanting to understand the math of why and how a certain value was reached, and the payload limit never squared with all the rest of the math, thus my questions..
Even if we can't all fully agree, I am MUCH more aware (
now) of things like tire ratings, thanks to this and other threads like it. And for that I am very grateful!
Walaby wrote:
audiodane wrote:
- Question: Is the mfgr being misleading, or is this RV "designed" to be pulled with a 15% kingpin hitch ratio?
- Question: Why do the combined axle ratings so often *exceed* the tow vehicle's gvw?
- Question: Before I purchase the truck, how do I reconcile these two vastly different outcomes?
My input, 1 by 1.
1. No, mfgr is not being misleading. They are telling you the specific weight information, for the RV, in an unloaded capacity. They have no insight into how the thousands of us will load it. Depending on the configuration, alot of weight can end up on pin after loaded. How are they to predict how you will load your trailer?
2. Because there are more factors than JUST axle weight rating when determining payload. Simple fact is, the 3/4 ton trucks are artificially capped at 10K for taxes and licensing purposes. There are differences, as pointed out, in suspension (coil vs leaf) and probably a few other parts. But for most part, they use the same parts for both classes of vehicles (except DRWs of course).
3. It is totally up to you, and the value you put on the different weight ratings. That is why this argument ALWAYS, repeat ALWAYS ends up in disagreement. And why you will never get a unanimous opinion (note, I said opinion). Even with my 1 ton, my weights, with truck loaded to go, RV loaded to go, I am 20 lbs OVER my payload, but 300lbs UNDER my axle weight rating. My hitch weighs 300lbs by itself. Im probably running 23-24% pin weight, because I've got a full basement of "stuff" and most of that ends up on the pin. I added a different mattress that weighs probably 50 lbs more than the mattress that came with the unit. That's all pin weight. So, it adds up quickly. Am I worried about it? No...
For 5er's, I am more focused on pin weight and the rear GAWR. Less concerned about payload. I am with the others who say, if you plan to tow a 5er, and planning to buy an SRW truck, just go with 1 ton and be done. I am a two timer (had a 2500, then bought a 3500). Fortunately for me, my 2500 Ram Cummins Diesel I basically broke even selling ($1500 less than I paid after 2 years) and I got a screaming deal on a new 2017 (in late 2018), with only 26 miles.
Thanks so much mike-
1) yes, but I guess my parallel question is, if they are rating 15% based upon UVW, does that mean it's designed to be 15%, period.. IOW, if you loaded 2K into it, then it would be 15% of the new weight. Or, are they saying 15% UVW simply to give artificially low numbers in order to make them look better against their competitors, even though "everyone knows" (read: everyone has an opinion!) you should really target 20% or more. Even the Ram Truck folks can't seem to make up their mind. a 2010 job rating worksheet listed kingpin at 25%. Their 2016 revision drops that to 15%. And this (seems to be) ram's own recommended job-rating worksheet!
2) Seems to be the prevailing answer in my research...
3) Thanks for your feedback and experience.. I'm at least able to better understand WHY people have different perspectives now. Previously I just knew nobody seemed to agree. I'm becoming more comfortable with my understanding of the issues, the math, and the class delineation. The extremely specific example in the OP has seemed to help people give more objective and less subjective answers (or at least clarify what is opinion vs not), which has all been very helpful!
cheers,
..dane
