Weight and Truck

@ol' grouch - man you know your stuff. It makes my head spin. But I understand. I think I am set on 3/4 ton and possible diesel - year 2000+?. However - since I will buy used I guess I will need to do some homework on brakes and rear end ratio. It's really actually cool stuff...just makes it tougher to shop for the right truck. But....it must be that way. News to me about the diesel oil capacity by the way. Wow. Oh it would be a class 4 hitch I need as well?

cs2kplus wrote:
@ol' grouch...I hear ya. But I don't have a way of weighing the camper at this point - without a truck to take it to a weigh station. As far as loaded weight? I would say it would perhaps be 2 adults and 3 teens max. That's what?....800 lbs right there. So 6500 + 800 = 7300. Added weight to rv? I can only give a high guess of 1000? So now we are at 8300. I looked at a f150 and the guy said its towing capacity is 8100. So that would tell me to step up to f250.
I get confused with the total weight vs. towing capacity. I understand the GCVWR is important to know. But I do not know how that relates to towing capacity. Man - I wish someone had an online calculator to input this stuff and get a real birds eye view of what is needed. As far as the truck brakes, engine, transmission being up to it? I do not know how to calculate this? This is in fact turning into rocket science.

Rear end gears and brakes are the two things that affect this the most. Your rear end ratio makes the biggest difference. My Ram 2500 for instance has 3.55 to 1 gearing.The bigger the first number the more mechanical advantage you have. I've seen folks run 4.11 to 1 which will pull a house down. It also makes the engine run faster to maintain a speed. What it means is the drive shaft turns 4.11 times for one ratation of the axle (and wheel). If I were to order a truck new, I'd get about a 3.7 to 3.9 to 1 ratio gearing. Gearing in the transmission helps when you use lower gears, like in traffic, but it only helps a little on the highway.

Oversized brakes are the other part of the setup. 4 wheel discs don't overheat as much as drums and you want trailer brakes on all the axles. If you think you'll use the truck a lot without the trailer and hit the hills with it, I'd recommend going with a 3/4 ton truck like the F250, and see if you can get a deisel. They cost more but have superior towing ability and much better fuel mileage under load. My Ram 2500 with the gas engine can stay with the oil burners, until we get to a fuel stop.

One thing to watch for on diesels, you DON'T want one that's been cranked up. A lot of guys do that to make them smoke and really pull. It also increases wear and shortens the service life of the vehicle. Ford makes a good diesel truck and the Dodge Ram with a Cummins is the puller of choice around the shops where I hang out. The Cummins puts out 1/3 of what it is able but that's so it will last several hundred thousand miles. Diesels are also pretty dainty on some things. Overheat one and you rebuild it. Change the oil and it is in gallons, not quarts. One fellow was talking today and mentioned it takes 3 1/2 gallons to change his oil. Dodge now has a smaller oil burner in the 1/2 ton. I don't know how it will handle pulling.

@ol' grouch...I hear ya. But I don't have a way of weighing the camper at this point - without a truck to take it to a weigh station. As far as loaded weight? I would say it would perhaps be 2 adults and 3 teens max. That's what?....800 lbs right there. So 6500 + 800 = 7300. Added weight to rv? I can only give a high guess of 1000? So now we are at 8300. I looked at a f150 and the guy said its towing capacity is 8100. So that would tell me to step up to f250.
I get confused with the total weight vs. towing capacity. I understand the GCVWR is important to know. But I do not know how that relates to towing capacity. Man - I wish someone had an online calculator to input this stuff and get a real birds eye view of what is needed. As far as the truck brakes, engine, transmission being up to it? I do not know how to calculate this? This is in fact turning into rocket science.

cs2kplus wrote:
@ol'grouch...so if my camper is 6500lbs and truck is what 6500-? Then I need a gcvwr of like 13,000?

I'll give you a definite......maybe. Are each of them 6500 fully loaded? My '01 Ram 2500 weighs in at 6580 with a full tank and no load or passengers. Your brakes, engine, transmission and such need to be up to the task. You'll also need to make sure your truck plates are heavy enough. The heavier the truck, the more road tax you pay. If you truck weighs 7500 pounds loaded with the tongue weight, 7000 pound plates will have you overgross.

I would advise a vehicle combination slightly higher. 14K, maybe 15K. You always want a little extra capacity just for safety.

Nice sum up wintersun. That was quite refreshing to here. It's kinda where I am with this all. I am still looking. I keep seeing 1500's and f150 that look pretty damn beefy. Will I be climbing rocky areas. It's possible. But I am doubting it. But I am a fan of overkill too. What actual formula should I follow? If my RV is 6500 and a truck is say close to that...we are at a GCVWR of 13,000. So what does that mean now?

The GCWR is the important number as it is the total load that the engine, drivetrain, suspension, frame, brakes, and other components can safely handle. Too high a tow load and the engine and transmission will suffer and have a shorter useful life.

When GM in 2011 and Ram in 2013 greatly increased the tow rating for their heavy duty trucks (2500 and 3500 models) they beefed up the frames, the suspension, and the brakes, as well as increasing the horsepower from the engines. There is always a weakest link and the GCWR calculation incorporates at all the potential points of wear and failure for the vehicle.

Tow ratings though are fictitious in many respects. A vehicle rated for 10,000 lbs. may come with a hitch rated for 7500 lbs., or gearing that is too high, or brakes that are not capable of stopping the vehicle without the use of the trailer's brakes as well, or the ATF may operate at too high a temperature with extended towing up steep grades or at high elevations or with high ambient air temperatures.

Big difference as well in regularly towing a load over the Rockies in the summertime and pulling the same load across hill country or flat lands for a couple weeks out of the year. The 3/4 ton is a better choice for the first set of conditions and a 1/2 ton may be adequate for the second set.

@ol'grouch...so if my camper is 6500lbs and truck is what 6500-? Then I need a gcvwr of like 13,000?

cs2kplus wrote:
@apt....GVWR= 6500. I am confused now about what dry means.

This is my label plate:

GVWR means Gross Vehicle Weight Rating. What you are looking for is GCVWR. This is Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating. GVWR is the maximum the manufacturer says you can run the equipment at. There's usually a little wiggle room there but it means fully fueled, loaded and all the passebgers.

GCVWR is the tow vehicle and the tow altogether.

The dry weight is the weight that in theory the trailer weighed when it left the factory. Adding items like a battery or water to the fresh water tank or food or clothes and other travel gear will increase that weight. Safest is to add 1000 lbs. to the dry weight to determine the requirements for a tow vehicle.

What is almost always overlooked is the difference in towing capacity that results from the rear end gears for the vehicle. GM rates its 3.73 equipped vehicles 25% higher than those with 3.41 gears and it rates those with 4.10 gears 25% higher than those with 3.73 gears for its gas engine powered vehicles.

For towing I would get a vehicle with 4.10 gears if possible and no higher than 3.73 gears. This puts less stress on the engine and the transmission and works better for towing. It can also help fuel economy overall with the engine spending more time in its peak power band while towing.

All the manufacturers have downloadable PDF towing guides and these are revised each year. They provide towing capacity, loads where a weight distributing hitch is recommended or required, and other useful information and all it takes is a couple minutes of your time to download.

Tow package options are one of the only good deals you can get with the purchase of a vehicle. Usually the radiator, alternator, and transmission cooler are upgraded and the factory installs a hitch and trailer wiring. It is a bargain compared to getting this done later.

7500 lbs. is on the border between a 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton pickup. The newer trucks often have stronger frames and better brakes and are more adept than ones made 10 years ago at towing. The 3/4 ton trucks will have a harder ride and weigh a lot more than the 1/2 ton pickups and provide worse fuel economy. For a 10,000 lb. load it is an obvious decision to go with the 3/4 ton truck but not for a trailer load under 8,000 lbs.

If I wanted an economical rig I would plan on buying a 1/2 ton pickup and get one rated for 7500 lbs. or more towing capacity and then buy a trailer with a dry weight of less than 5,000 lbs. and able to carry up to 1000 lbs. of gear and provisions and fresh water, etc.

@apt...in case label did not show...
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