Anyone have Sears MasterCard limit decreased

Also, to the OP's original query about credit limit reductions, in the USA with Citi and Synchrony Banks, this is very common for a variety of retail store cards. Much discussion about these happenings at various credit card forums.

As pointed out, Scotia acquired the Sears Canada Mastercard from Chase Bank. The long term goal of Scotia is to phase out the Sears Mastercard and replace it with the no-fee Scotia Momentum Cash Back card. What sort of timeline remains to be seen; it could be under way already with selective customers. These things are frequently timed to coincide with the expiration of the card being replaced.

rockhillmanor wrote:

toedtoes wrote:

rockhillmanor wrote:

toedtoes wrote:
Here is the information on Automatic Debit Scams. As you can see, they have to obtain your bank account number (not your debit card number).

This is "inaccurate" also.

They do NOT have to have your actual bank account number.

Your debit card info, when used, 'includes' your bank account number within the transaction taken, because it is attached to that account. That is how the money is taken out. The company that debits you for a bill does not physically need to have your bank account number just what is on the debit card.

I just set up 4 bill pays over the phone and all that was required was my debit card number and expiration. Only one of the four asked for the code on the back.

My bill pay for my car insurance and YMCA did require one of my checks signed with void across it to set up auto bill pay. They were the ONLY ones that required the check/acct number.

There are 2 ways a company may ask you for to set up an automatic bill pay.

1. A real check with void across it physically provided to company.
2. Debit card info.

Yup in the old days they needed your bank account number. Fast forward to today and they don't need it. Just the info on your debit card.

So if you loose it, or put the info on the internet for a purchase someone can get just those two bits of info and use it for an auto debit if they are capable of doing so. Technology is at warp speed and they left a gaping security hole regarding auto pay debits.

You can't tell me that no one on this forum has set up auto bill pay by just giving them their debit card info?? :B

....If they use your debit card info for a bill pay, then it is considered a "debit card transaction" and the bank is required to reimburse you for the fraudulent transaction - regardless of whether they call it a "debit charge" or an "automatic debit"....

Wrong and I'm going to leave with this because, and I have first hand experienced it, bank explained it to me, and you just don't get it.

Curious how old you are and if you were around before debit cards appeared on the scene to understand all what 'was' required for monthly auto pay deductions from an account before debit cards?

NO and NO an 'auto pay' is not processed in house by the bank as a 'debit charge' purchase. They may accept the card for the info but it is processed as a monthly automatic deduction

ONE because it goes into the bank as a REPETITIVE monthly deduction. I.E. monthly auto deduction from your account. In this instance the bank CAN recognize the difference between the two. and TWO a debit charge is where the card is swiped for each and every transaction by you the owner.

Where the problem lies is the bank is set up on the OLD system of security practices, where the owner of the account to obtain a monthly deduction from their checking account HAD TO DO THE FOLLOWING:

supply a written authorization to the company,
provide the routing number
Provide the checking account number,
AND do it all in person to sign for it.
Monthly Auto deductions from an account were taken very seriously. And yes these old tangible real paper documents where put in your file.

Then comes along the introduction of the debit card.
Hmm, it's attached to an actual checking account so let's just use that. Which they DO now.

And the hole in using the 'debit' card for a 'repetitive monthly auto payment deduction from an account, is that is you, the checking account owner NO longer has to be there in person, be able to provide the checking acct number, or sign an authorization, etc.

For you millenniums, the debit card has NOT always been around in the banking world. :W

Have a good day. You keep believing that an auto deduction is processed in house at a bank the same as a debit purchase.
I've got 4th of July parties to attend and refreshing spirits calling to me!:C

I AM old enough to remember before debit cards. I am NOT a millenial.

Here are the actual rules


Using your debit card at a POS, ATM, telephone, or in person is the same (see Section 203.5(a)(1)). Whether you are using your debit card in person or online makes no difference. A business can use the debit card to withdraw from your account once or a hundred times it still falls under the Electronic Funds Transfer (EFT) definition.

Section 205.2(m) - definition of unauthorized EFT
there is no requirement that it is a single event or multiple events.

Section 205.2(k) - definition of preauthorized EFT
defines the automatic payments as EFT

Section 205.6 - liability for unauthorized EFTs
(b)(1) and (b)(2) explain the notification requirements and liability for a loss or stolen card;
(b)(3) explains the notification requirements and liability for an unauthorized EFT with no loss of card.

Section 205.10 - this sections explains an AUTHORIZED EFT. The liability rules are different IF you had authorized someone to take repeat payments out of your account (whether with check or debit card) and then revoked that authorization. If you do not notify the bank of your revocation of the authorization (205.10(c)) at least 3 business days prior to the withdrawal, then the bank is not liable. In that situation, you must fight with the business to be refunded.

If you read all this, you will understand that if you did NOT authorize the payment by providing them with your debit card info or account info, then you are not liable for the loss. If it was an unauthorized EFT by someone who has not received a preauthorization from you, then it is covered under the FDIC. If you have given them preauthorization at one time, then you are liable unless you notify the bank that you have revoked that authorization.

A legitimate business that had received your preauthorization will have a record to show the bank upon their investigation (that record is created when you click the "agree" button). That then puts the onus on YOU to prove you notified the bank of your revocation.

If a legitimate business fakes that preauthorization, then you need to talk to your bank to get a deeper investigation.

A non-legitimate business (or scam business) is going to be easily identifiable by the bank and you will be reimbursed according to the appropriate section above.

Cant remember the last time I used my debit card. Is it going the way of monkey Wards and Sears? CC seems to work just fine everywhere.

Sears credit cards in the USA are issued and managed by Citibank. Any issues would be addressed through them.

When (not if) Sears finally goes out of business as a retailer, they may or may not maintain an on-line presense for a while. In that case, the credit cards would likely still be valid. If Sears goes completely out of business, Citi's past practise has been to offer a store card for a different retailer...or not. It seems to depend on the consumer and what their overall credit picture looks like.

toedtoes wrote:

rockhillmanor wrote:

toedtoes wrote:
Here is the information on Automatic Debit Scams. As you can see, they have to obtain your bank account number (not your debit card number).

This is "inaccurate" also.

They do NOT have to have your actual bank account number.

Your debit card info, when used, 'includes' your bank account number within the transaction taken, because it is attached to that account. That is how the money is taken out. The company that debits you for a bill does not physically need to have your bank account number just what is on the debit card.

I just set up 4 bill pays over the phone and all that was required was my debit card number and expiration. Only one of the four asked for the code on the back.

My bill pay for my car insurance and YMCA did require one of my checks signed with void across it to set up auto bill pay. They were the ONLY ones that required the check/acct number.

There are 2 ways a company may ask you for to set up an automatic bill pay.

1. A real check with void across it physically provided to company.
2. Debit card info.

Yup in the old days they needed your bank account number. Fast forward to today and they don't need it. Just the info on your debit card.

So if you loose it, or put the info on the internet for a purchase someone can get just those two bits of info and use it for an auto debit if they are capable of doing so. Technology is at warp speed and they left a gaping security hole regarding auto pay debits.

You can't tell me that no one on this forum has set up auto bill pay by just giving them their debit card info?? :B

....If they use your debit card info for a bill pay, then it is considered a "debit card transaction" and the bank is required to reimburse you for the fraudulent transaction - regardless of whether they call it a "debit charge" or an "automatic debit"....

Wrong and I'm going to leave with this because, and I have first hand experienced it, bank explained it to me, and you just don't get it.

Curious how old you are and if you were around before debit cards appeared on the scene to understand all what 'was' required for monthly auto pay deductions from an account before debit cards?

NO and NO an 'auto pay' is not processed in house by the bank as a 'debit charge' purchase. They may accept the card for the info but it is processed as a monthly automatic deduction

ONE because it goes into the bank as a REPETITIVE monthly deduction. I.E. monthly auto deduction from your account. In this instance the bank CAN recognize the difference between the two. and TWO a debit charge is where the card is swiped for each and every transaction by you the owner.

Where the problem lies is the bank is set up on the OLD system of security practices, where the owner of the account to obtain a monthly deduction from their checking account HAD TO DO THE FOLLOWING:

supply a written authorization to the company,
provide the routing number
Provide the checking account number,
AND do it all in person to sign for it.
Monthly Auto deductions from an account were taken very seriously. And yes these old tangible real paper documents where put in your file.

Then comes along the introduction of the debit card.
Hmm, it's attached to an actual checking account so let's just use that. Which they DO now.

And the hole in using the 'debit' card for a 'repetitive monthly auto payment deduction from an account, is that is you, the checking account owner NO longer has to be there in person, be able to provide the checking acct number, or sign an authorization, etc.

For you millenniums, the debit card has NOT always been around in the banking world. :W

Have a good day. You keep believing that an auto deduction is processed in house at a bank the same as a debit purchase.
I've got 4th of July parties to attend and refreshing spirits calling to me!:C

fj12ryder wrote:
"If they use your debit card info for a bill pay, then it is considered a "debit card transaction" and the bank is required to reimburse you for the fraudulent transaction - regardless of whether they call it a "debit charge" or an "automatic debit". It may take a few weeks for the investigation to complete and get the funds reimbursed, but it is a DEBIT CARD TRANSACTION and protected."

Actually, according to the link to the FTC Rules you provided you're only partially correct. It depends on how quickly you report the charges. If you don't report them quick enough you could be liable.

Correct. If it's not related to a stolen or lost debit card, you have 60 days from the statement date showing the charge(s) to report it. Do you really need more than 2 months to realize someone fraudulently debited your account?

fj12ryder wrote:
"Again, do not EVER provide your bank account to a bill payee."

Why are written checks not an issue? They have your bank account number plainly printed on the front. And you send them to the payee, thereby giving them, according to you, easy access to your account.

Yes, written checks are an issue if they get into the wrong hands or if the receiver enters and stores the account information from the check into their computer system (it's no different than having your credit or debit card information stored in their computer systems - it becomes more vulnerable to hacking). Most people rarely write checks anymore, so I didn't mention it.


Again, there are practical ways to protect yourself:
Don't use "overdraft protection" between your checking and savings.
Don't keep a large balance in your checking account.
Don't give out your account number.
Use trusted businesses.
Make sure any website with which you input your card numbers, account numbers, etc., are encrypted.
Keep a list of your card numbers handy (both debit and credit) so if one is lost or stolen you can quickly cancel it.
Check your statements/account balances frequently and regularly for unusual activity.

"If they use your debit card info for a bill pay, then it is considered a "debit card transaction" and the bank is required to reimburse you for the fraudulent transaction - regardless of whether they call it a "debit charge" or an "automatic debit". It may take a few weeks for the investigation to complete and get the funds reimbursed, but it is a DEBIT CARD TRANSACTION and protected."

Actually, according to the link to the FTC Rules you provided you're only partially correct. It depends on how quickly you report the charges. If you don't report them quick enough you could be liable.

"Again, do not EVER provide your bank account to a bill payee."

Why are written checks not an issue? They have your bank account number plainly printed on the front. And you send them to the payee, thereby giving them, according to you, easy access to your account.

boston blacky wrote:
Hey guys;

DW had this mastercard issued by Sears Canada for several years. Several days ago DW noticed her credit limit for that card was lowered from just over 10K to just above 8k. She called and the old limit was quickly reinstated.

But, today the same thing occurred and despite a long wait on the phone plus the run around - explain the situation to one person and another and then yet another - no luck and it's (credit limit) now reset at the lower limit 8.5K.

I understand Sears is in deep trouble and closing many outlets - could it also be cutting back on credit limits and failing to tell their customers?

p.s. DW tells me monthly payments are always paid on time and when possible balance is paid in full.

As others said it has nothing to do with Sears and everything to do with the bank issuing the card. Even though you're in Canada when the Fed here in the US raises the prime banks start looking at everything more closely. If you were to grab your credit report somewhere, you'll most likely find a report pull from the bank issuing the card. They look at a whole lot of factors to come to the conclusion to lower a credit limit. As rates rise, which have been stagnant for a long time, you can expect more limit reductions and credit generally becoming harder to obtain. It's the nature of the beast. Its not issued by Citibank is it? They're notorious for playing with your limits and rates.

JaxDad wrote:

boston blacky wrote:
Hey guys;

DW had this mastercard issued by Sears Canada for several years. Several days ago DW noticed her credit limit for that card was lowered from just over 10K to just above 8k. She called and the old limit was quickly reinstated.

But, today the same thing occurred and despite a long wait on the phone plus the run around - explain the situation to one person and another and then yet another - no luck and it's (credit limit) now reset at the lower limit 8.5K.

Months back I got a letter from Sears saying my account was being transferred to Scotiabank. Sure enough shortly afterwards I got a letter from Scotiabank saying if I wanted to retain the credit card to call them. I did and after a few brief questions the CS rep said the cards are on their way.

A week or so later the new cards arrived and with a higher limit than before.

Yep. They usually sell the credit card portion to another bank and allow the current card holders to transfer into the new system. Usually, you get a better deal with the change (higher limit, lower interest, point rewards, or eliminated fee), but you have to watch because sometimes you will get an increased interest rate with the change. You always have the option to decline - if you do, you will be required to pay off the existing card.

rockhillmanor wrote:

toedtoes wrote:
Here is the information on Automatic Debit Scams. As you can see, they have to obtain your bank account number (not your debit card number).

This is "inaccurate" also.

They do NOT have to have your actual bank account number.

Your debit card info, when used, 'includes' your bank account number within the transaction taken, because it is attached to that account. That is how the money is taken out. The company that debits you for a bill does not physically need to have your bank account number just what is on the debit card.

I just set up 4 bill pays over the phone and all that was required was my debit card number and expiration. Only one of the four asked for the code on the back.

My bill pay for my car insurance and YMCA did require one of my checks signed with void across it to set up auto bill pay. They were the ONLY ones that required the check/acct number.

There are 2 ways a company may ask you for to set up an automatic bill pay.

1. A real check with void across it physically provided to company.
2. Debit card info.

Yup in the old days they needed your bank account number. Fast forward to today and they don't need it. Just the info on your debit card.

So if you loose it, or put the info on the internet for a purchase someone can get just those two bits of info and use it for an auto debit if they are capable of doing so. Technology is at warp speed and they left a gaping security hole regarding auto pay debits.

You can't tell me that no one on this forum has set up auto bill pay by just giving them their debit card info?? :B

If they use your debit card info for a bill pay, then it is considered a "debit card transaction" and the bank is required to reimburse you for the fraudulent transaction - regardless of whether they call it a "debit charge" or an "automatic debit". It may take a few weeks for the investigation to complete and get the funds reimbursed, but it is a DEBIT CARD TRANSACTION and protected.

If they use your actual account info, then it is a true "automatic debit" and the bank is not required to reimburse you for the fraudulent transaction.

That is the difference.

When you give them your debit card info for your repeating bill pay, they only have access to your account THROUGH that card number and expiration date. Once the card is expired or cancelled, they can no longer access your account. Because they are doing a "debit card transaction".

When you give them your account information for your repeating bill pay, you are giving them full access to your account to withdraw or deposit whenever they want. The only way to stop them from doing so is to close the account.