Bad Campground Neighboor

am1958 wrote:

toedtoes wrote:
Well, since you're asking for comments, I'll respond. I don't think that threatening to kill and eat someone's dog, "laying out" your weapons, etc. is going to do anything but escalate the problem. I disagree that meeting aggression with aggression is a smart thing to do.

As you will most likely find as your daughter grows up, protecting her will often require you to step out of a situation rather than run full-force into it.

A threat is but a threat and tools are simply tools placed in plain sight. For the largest part these people only understand strength and weakness and use it to benefit themselves. I regularly step into situations far more "dangerous" than someone getting stroppy when they are asked to control their dog. I have never had the situation escalate even when stepping into ongoing brawls to stop them. I'm not a big man and I'm not particularly muscular but when I step in it is quite clear that:-

a. I'm not scared of the situation and the way it may develop and

b. I'm not looking to escalate but, should they wish to do so, I'm quite prepared for it.

I've never, ever had to defend myself and have, on every occasion, defused the situation or achieved the desired change of behaviour.

There is an old and wise phrase that goes something like:-

The only thing required for bad men to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

If one does nothing when people misbehave one becomes a part of the problem really doesn't one?

Heck, if you don't feel capable alone and the perpetrator is bothering others too, (which is usually the case), then go as a group to confront him/her.

People are so content to be the victim and will waste all kinds of energy muttering and complaining about it but won't expend a drop in changing their lot and in doing so contribute to the decline in society they also suck their teeth and tut-tut over. Funnily enough, these people are often the first to complain in a restaurant or store.

As to my daughter, it is my task to prepare her for adult life while protecting her. I would fail in my duty as a parent if the lesson I imparted is that it's ok to be walked upon by any Tom, Dick or Harriet. I take comfort in the knowledge that my 30 year old daughter is a polite, pleasant person who, when wronged, is a quite formidable individual.

There's a fine line between stupidity and bravery.

toedtoes wrote:
Well, since you're asking for comments, I'll respond. I don't think that threatening to kill and eat someone's dog, "laying out" your weapons, etc. is going to do anything but escalate the problem. I disagree that meeting aggression with aggression is a smart thing to do.

As you will most likely find as your daughter grows up, protecting her will often require you to step out of a situation rather than run full-force into it.

A threat is but a threat and tools are simply tools placed in plain sight. For the largest part these people only understand strength and weakness and use it to benefit themselves. I regularly step into situations far more "dangerous" than someone getting stroppy when they are asked to control their dog. I have never had the situation escalate even when stepping into ongoing brawls to stop them. I'm not a big man and I'm not particularly muscular but when I step in it is quite clear that:-

a. I'm not scared of the situation and the way it may develop and

b. I'm not looking to escalate but, should they wish to do so, I'm quite prepared for it.

I've never, ever had to defend myself and have, on every occasion, defused the situation or achieved the desired change of behaviour.

There is an old and wise phrase that goes something like:-

The only thing required for bad men to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

If one does nothing when people misbehave one becomes a part of the problem really doesn't one?

Heck, if you don't feel capable alone and the perpetrator is bothering others too, (which is usually the case), then go as a group to confront him/her.

People are so content to be the victim and will waste all kinds of energy muttering and complaining about it but won't expend a drop in changing their lot and in doing so contribute to the decline in society they also suck their teeth and tut-tut over. Funnily enough, these people are often the first to complain in a restaurant or store.

As to my daughter, it is my task to prepare her for adult life while protecting her. I would fail in my duty as a parent if the lesson I imparted is that it's ok to be walked upon by any Tom, Dick or Harriet. I take comfort in the knowledge that my 30 year old daughter is a polite, pleasant person who, when wronged, is a quite formidable individual.

am1958 wrote:
I find it interesting that no post here since my last post has addressed what I said but many seem to think that "authority" will not help and that "some Pit Bulls" are ok.

As an ex owner of two, controlled, German Shepherds and the current father of a seven year old daughter I don't see why everyone is so reticent to meet "strength" with strength.

Any dog allowed to run freely in a campground is, by definition, uncontrolled. Any uncontrolled dog in the vicinity of my daughter is, until I'm absolutely sure it's harmless, is a threat to her.

Just so people know, I'm not some 25 year old hothead. I'm 56 and my wife and I adopted our daughter three and a half years ago. She had a pretty hard life pre-adoption, I'm sure as heck not going to make that life any worse by exposing her to silly dangers like people who won't, (because "can't" shouldn't be an issue), control a potentially dangerous animal*. I don't blame the animal at all but, in the same breath, I'm not prepared to give it any quarter. To have an owner attempt to treat me like the OP related is rubbish and, as I stated, most do it because people present them with weakness all the time. A harsh word here and a bad look there and they get what they want as happened in this case.

You always have a fallback position. Put the wife out of site with the phone, send her to another site, have her go to get the Ranger but, please, stand up first.

If you don't then you condemn everyone else who camps near the idiot to the same behavior.

* In her future is back country camping with the dangers that brings, SCUBA, maybe a little free fall, and various other pastimes that some may consider risky... But we control the risk not some dog...

Well, since you're asking for comments, I'll respond. I don't think that threatening to kill and eat someone's dog, "laying out" your weapons, etc. is going to do anything but escalate the problem. I disagree that meeting aggression with aggression is a smart thing to do.

As you will most likely find as your daughter grows up, protecting her will often require you to step out of a situation rather than run full-force into it.

I find it interesting that no post here since my last post has addressed what I said but many seem to think that "authority" will not help and that "some Pit Bulls" are ok.

As an ex owner of two, controlled, German Shepherds and the current father of a seven year old daughter I don't see why everyone is so reticent to meet "strength" with strength.

Any dog allowed to run freely in a campground is, by definition, uncontrolled. Any uncontrolled dog in the vicinity of my daughter is, until I'm absolutely sure it's harmless, is a threat to her.

Just so people know, I'm not some 25 year old hothead. I'm 56 and my wife and I adopted our daughter three and a half years ago. She had a pretty hard life pre-adoption, I'm sure as heck not going to make that life any worse by exposing her to silly dangers like people who won't, (because "can't" shouldn't be an issue), control a potentially dangerous animal*. I don't blame the animal at all but, in the same breath, I'm not prepared to give it any quarter. To have an owner attempt to treat me like the OP related is rubbish and, as I stated, most do it because people present them with weakness all the time. A harsh word here and a bad look there and they get what they want as happened in this case.

You always have a fallback position. Put the wife out of site with the phone, send her to another site, have her go to get the Ranger but, please, stand up first.

If you don't then you condemn everyone else who camps near the idiot to the same behavior.

* In her future is back country camping with the dangers that brings, SCUBA, maybe a little free fall, and various other pastimes that some may consider risky... But we control the risk not some dog...

I have been thinking about all these threads concerning loose dogs at campsites and have decided on the following:

1. If the campground is fairly empty, I will most likely just move my site if there is a jerkoff camped next to me. If I get questioned about moving by the camphost, ranger, etc., I will explain exactly why I moved (and it may or may not have anything to do with a loose dog).

2. From now on, if someone's dog is loose and coming around my dogs, I will ask the owner to please call their dog away. When they say, which they invariably do, "oh, he/she's friendly", I will no longer reply with "well mine aren't" but instead with "well I am not friendly and don't want your dog in my space". I'm going to keep my dogs out of the situation as much as possible - because if they become part of it, they will be accused of being problem due to their breeds. And for the record, my dogs aren't mean, aggressive, etc., but one has a fear of people issue and the other has been attacked by small dogs to the point that he doesn't like them much anymore (both are getting better with work, but sometimes they are just tired and cranky and don't have any patience left - just like me).

3. I now have a bunch of those cheap noose-leashes that I am keeping in my RV. If a dog appears in my campsite loose and is not aggressive, I will leash it and take it back to its owner and say "I just found your dog messing with a rattle snake, I suggest you check the dog for bites and keep it with you from now on".

I figure the above will be the less stressful on me, the most effective in removing the problem, and the less likely to backfire on my dogs.

DiskDoctr wrote:
Unfortunately, even if your cousin would have attempted to stand up against being wronged, her success would be entirely dependent on the "AUTHORITY" to whom she made the report.

If the person who happens to be in charge of that particular forum decides to ignore her, there is nothing more she could do. It's their sandbox and they will run it however they want.

"Right" and "Justice" are always subject to the rule of the king.

They aren't always right, but we're all subject to their rule.

Like the saying, "Might doesn't always make right" ;)

I've seen NYS troopers in action and make a conscious effort not to disagree with them about ANYTHING. Also and particularly NYPD. Which explains why of late I've been camping in Connecticut......

Apparently my tax dollars work much too hard on law enforcement.

Unfortunately, even if your cousin would have attempted to stand up against being wronged, her success would be entirely dependent on the "AUTHORITY" to whom she made the report.

If the person who happens to be in charge of that particular forum decides to ignore her, there is nothing more she could do. It's their sandbox and they will run it however they want.

"Right" and "Justice" are always subject to the rule of the king.

They aren't always right, but we're all subject to their rule.

Like the saying, "Might doesn't always make right" ;)

I have known Pit Bulls that would not harm a person (Unless you were trying to either harm them or one of their protectees) and pit bulls.. Well the one dog that ever managed to cause me pain (Did not exactly bite me, but tried) on purpose and had any measure of success at all was a Pit Bull.

I have been bitten by a dog once.. He did not mean to and it was clear from his actions he was sorry,, That was an albino shepard.

The Pit managed to strike a fingernail while trying to bite my wrist but I was too fast for him (Fairly good at reading animal body language so I knew to get outta the way, just not quite fast enough) he is the only animal ever to "Get a piece of me" on purpose.. Though even there he did not break skin.

So Yes, I am cautious around them.. But I've had other breeds try to bite me too,, Like the pit, they filed, unlike him they did not even get close.

This is really terrible, but I'm becoming a bigger and bigger believer in having a dash cam, or clicking your smart phone to record events like this.

~DJ~ wrote:
As far as the Pit Bull debate, no matter what you want to call them, are the number one biters.

Of the 14 people killed by dogs in the USA 13 were from Pit Bulls!!

I love dogs but I would not turn my back on a Pit due to their deserved reputation.

Of the one dog I own that was attacked by another dog (on a public street) it was a pit bull.

Of the one friend I have that was attacked by another dog (on a public street) it was a pit bull.

Yeah- I know that pit bulls can be incredibly loving dogs- just as the small breeds can have incredible aggressive tendencies too.

But there's some bad tendencies with that mix of genes. Not out to exterminate anyone's wonderful pet- but not sure we need to be breeding new individuals that with a little bit of the wrong kind of coaching become fairly efficient killers.