Crack Down on 50 Amp Rigs Using 30 Amp Sites
I don't know how long this has been going on but I learned today that some RV parks including the Washington/Pittsbugh KOA I had booked has a policy that if your rig has 50 amp service, you can't use ...
Forum Discussion
Never heard of this but can understand a CG wanting to limit 50 amp-ers. It's all about the code... (Sorry for the long read.)
We stay mostly in Thousand Trails CGs and most of their CGs have electrical systems decades old and most have few 50 amp sites. RVs using 50-30 amp adapters can be seen everywhere and they're never restricted and everyone in the CGs manage okay. The occasional CG means that I need to pull out our autoformer but I've never heard of feeder breakers that have tripped. It's usually the full-timers with 50 amp RVs that manage to snag all the 50 amp sites.
Low voltage is the usually the issue which is caused by high demands, esp. in summer heat. What helps in a discussion like this is to know what the MINIMUM NEC electrical code requirments are. Some of the min. code requirements have changed a lot over the years. In addition, newer CGs are wired differently than older ones and are far less likely to have low voltage problems.
The problem is that there are simply waaay more 50 amp RVs out there today than what CGs were originally designed to handle. Plus they on average draw a LOT more power than 30 amp-ers. Low voltage and related issues are simply caused by the min. requirements of the NEC in effect at the time under which a CG was built. Some "CGs" out there have built above the min. code requirements such as casinos and some gov't CGs for ex. but are the exception. The authorities having jurisdiction (AHJ) cannot force an existing CG to upgrade to the current code edition so RV-ers have to live with what's out there no matter how bad it gets. Some CGs would likely upgrade but it's extremely costly. If a CG does upgrade, it has to upgrade to the current code requirements which would even be costlier than the past.
Sometimes, breakers feeding feeders to sites (loop-fed pedestals or sites fed off remote panels) can trip even when voltage is good. Some RV-ers use autoformers when voltage is low which will only make things worse.
Electrical requirments for "RV parks" are contained in article 551 of the NEC. Free copies can be found on the net for anyone wanting to do some research except you'll have to pay for the current edition.
As far as demand allowance goes for 30 or 50 amp RVs, the NEC does not differentiate between a 30 amp RV and a 50 amp RV using an adapter. EVERY 30 amp still has a max. demand allowance of 30 amps. From a strictly code requirement perspective, a CG shouldn't be limiting 50 amp RVs.
A summary of some of the changes & requirements of some code editions over the years are:
up to 2005:
- each 30 amp RV requires a demand allowance of 3600 watts
- each 50 amp RV requires a demand allowance of 9600 watts
- every RV park requires a min. of 5% of sites to have 50 amp pedestals
2005 and later editions:
- same demand allowance per 30 & 50 amp RVs
- every RV park now required to have a min. of 20% of sites to be 50 amps
2017 edition:
- same demand allowance for 30 amps but 50 amp RVs now require a 12,000 watt allowance.
- an RV park must have a min. 40% of sites at 50 amps
The folks on the NEC code committee have obviously learned that there are a lot more 50 amp RVs today and that they draw more power than in the past. Problem is, it's too little, too late. Good luck on finding a newly built CG anywhere.
As westernrvparkowner noted, the NEC provides for a reduction in total demand of sites on a feeder, dependent on the number of sites on a feeder. This min. requirement has not changed since the 1999 NEC edition. I haven't looked farther back. Min. sizes of feeders to sites grouped on a common feeder can be reduced the more the number of sites there are. There is a table in the code for this and a few lines out of the table are:
Demand allowance for 1 site = 100%, 2 sites = 90%, 3 sites = 80%, 7-9 sites = 55%, 36 sites or more = 41%.
What the various min. code requirements boil down to (prior to 2017), on a 200 amp feeder for ex., is that there can be 9 x 50 amp sites on a 200 amp feeder and 13 x 30 amp sites.
The demand factor table is where the problem really comes to light. For 30 amp sites with 30 amp RVs, the code specifically allows up to 13 RVs. Pedestal feeders can be pushed to the max. in the summer from many RVs using AC units and the demand table doesn't take this into account. Then along come 50 amp RVs using adapters that are absolutely going to draw more power. The NEC has NO demand provision for 50 amp RVs using a 30 amp adapter so it's a guess as to how much they will typically draw when running off a 30 amp adapter.
Other than in the summer time and the need in many locations to run AC units, 30 amp RV owners generally keep demand loads to a min. But 50 amp RV owners with their substantially higher load capacity, don't tend to normally conserve power in the same way. I installed an LED ammeter on the wall and in my experience rarely see a draw much above 15 amps except when running the AC unit.
The above code related electrical issues are for wiring and electrical components in top condition and as we all know, some pedestals and wiring can be in poor shape, only adding to the issues. Using the 20 amp recept. in a pedestal can in some cases, worsen voltage issues because the NEC never provided for 30 & 20 amp recepts. to be used at the same time.
What to do if you're 50 amps? If a CG has voltage and/or breaker tripping issues, do you really want to stay there? No? Go elsewhere. Are CG electrical issues not the problem they make it out to be and you really want to stay at a particular CG despite restrictions? Use a 50 amp to 30 amp pigtail adapter at the power inlet end of a shore power cord so that an adapter isn't visible at a pedestal. Maybe install a 30 amp power inlet and modify the wiring as needed and use a standard 30 amp shore power cord. Inquire at CGs by phone or email before booking to see if there are restrictions. Check on review sites like rvparkreviews to see if issues have been noted.
Personally, I'm glad we don't have a 50 amp-er. RV manufacturers and dealers could care less what power is like out there.
We stay mostly in Thousand Trails CGs and most of their CGs have electrical systems decades old and most have few 50 amp sites. RVs using 50-30 amp adapters can be seen everywhere and they're never restricted and everyone in the CGs manage okay. The occasional CG means that I need to pull out our autoformer but I've never heard of feeder breakers that have tripped. It's usually the full-timers with 50 amp RVs that manage to snag all the 50 amp sites.
Low voltage is the usually the issue which is caused by high demands, esp. in summer heat. What helps in a discussion like this is to know what the MINIMUM NEC electrical code requirments are. Some of the min. code requirements have changed a lot over the years. In addition, newer CGs are wired differently than older ones and are far less likely to have low voltage problems.
The problem is that there are simply waaay more 50 amp RVs out there today than what CGs were originally designed to handle. Plus they on average draw a LOT more power than 30 amp-ers. Low voltage and related issues are simply caused by the min. requirements of the NEC in effect at the time under which a CG was built. Some "CGs" out there have built above the min. code requirements such as casinos and some gov't CGs for ex. but are the exception. The authorities having jurisdiction (AHJ) cannot force an existing CG to upgrade to the current code edition so RV-ers have to live with what's out there no matter how bad it gets. Some CGs would likely upgrade but it's extremely costly. If a CG does upgrade, it has to upgrade to the current code requirements which would even be costlier than the past.
Sometimes, breakers feeding feeders to sites (loop-fed pedestals or sites fed off remote panels) can trip even when voltage is good. Some RV-ers use autoformers when voltage is low which will only make things worse.
Electrical requirments for "RV parks" are contained in article 551 of the NEC. Free copies can be found on the net for anyone wanting to do some research except you'll have to pay for the current edition.
As far as demand allowance goes for 30 or 50 amp RVs, the NEC does not differentiate between a 30 amp RV and a 50 amp RV using an adapter. EVERY 30 amp still has a max. demand allowance of 30 amps. From a strictly code requirement perspective, a CG shouldn't be limiting 50 amp RVs.
A summary of some of the changes & requirements of some code editions over the years are:
up to 2005:
- each 30 amp RV requires a demand allowance of 3600 watts
- each 50 amp RV requires a demand allowance of 9600 watts
- every RV park requires a min. of 5% of sites to have 50 amp pedestals
2005 and later editions:
- same demand allowance per 30 & 50 amp RVs
- every RV park now required to have a min. of 20% of sites to be 50 amps
2017 edition:
- same demand allowance for 30 amps but 50 amp RVs now require a 12,000 watt allowance.
- an RV park must have a min. 40% of sites at 50 amps
The folks on the NEC code committee have obviously learned that there are a lot more 50 amp RVs today and that they draw more power than in the past. Problem is, it's too little, too late. Good luck on finding a newly built CG anywhere.
As westernrvparkowner noted, the NEC provides for a reduction in total demand of sites on a feeder, dependent on the number of sites on a feeder. This min. requirement has not changed since the 1999 NEC edition. I haven't looked farther back. Min. sizes of feeders to sites grouped on a common feeder can be reduced the more the number of sites there are. There is a table in the code for this and a few lines out of the table are:
Demand allowance for 1 site = 100%, 2 sites = 90%, 3 sites = 80%, 7-9 sites = 55%, 36 sites or more = 41%.
What the various min. code requirements boil down to (prior to 2017), on a 200 amp feeder for ex., is that there can be 9 x 50 amp sites on a 200 amp feeder and 13 x 30 amp sites.
The demand factor table is where the problem really comes to light. For 30 amp sites with 30 amp RVs, the code specifically allows up to 13 RVs. Pedestal feeders can be pushed to the max. in the summer from many RVs using AC units and the demand table doesn't take this into account. Then along come 50 amp RVs using adapters that are absolutely going to draw more power. The NEC has NO demand provision for 50 amp RVs using a 30 amp adapter so it's a guess as to how much they will typically draw when running off a 30 amp adapter.
Other than in the summer time and the need in many locations to run AC units, 30 amp RV owners generally keep demand loads to a min. But 50 amp RV owners with their substantially higher load capacity, don't tend to normally conserve power in the same way. I installed an LED ammeter on the wall and in my experience rarely see a draw much above 15 amps except when running the AC unit.
The above code related electrical issues are for wiring and electrical components in top condition and as we all know, some pedestals and wiring can be in poor shape, only adding to the issues. Using the 20 amp recept. in a pedestal can in some cases, worsen voltage issues because the NEC never provided for 30 & 20 amp recepts. to be used at the same time.
What to do if you're 50 amps? If a CG has voltage and/or breaker tripping issues, do you really want to stay there? No? Go elsewhere. Are CG electrical issues not the problem they make it out to be and you really want to stay at a particular CG despite restrictions? Use a 50 amp to 30 amp pigtail adapter at the power inlet end of a shore power cord so that an adapter isn't visible at a pedestal. Maybe install a 30 amp power inlet and modify the wiring as needed and use a standard 30 amp shore power cord. Inquire at CGs by phone or email before booking to see if there are restrictions. Check on review sites like rvparkreviews to see if issues have been noted.
Personally, I'm glad we don't have a 50 amp-er. RV manufacturers and dealers could care less what power is like out there.
