Crack Down on 50 Amp Rigs Using 30 Amp Sites

This has nothing to do with cheaping out. It's about rigs pulling more power than the system is designed for.

People are just confusing the 30amp name for the outlet and assuming the system is designed to allow for continuous 30amp loads at every site.

jplante4 wrote:

Dave H M wrote:

jplante4 wrote:
Are they charging more for 50 amp sites? If so, then the reason is obvious.

It has been a lively discussion. However i am still wondering about the jetplane's assessment. First thing that came to my mind. :h

I saw a meme the other day that spoke the truth and eluded to this.



If a park charges $10 more a night for 50 amp, el cheapo RVers will book a 30 amp site to save $10 and run their million dollar bus through a dog bone.

I certainly wasn't trying to cheap out by wanting to use a 30A site. All the 50A sites were booked and there were no other campgrounds within a reasonable distance from downtown Pittsburgh that had ok reviews.

doxiemom11 wrote:
I guess that 30 amp rig running the same size A/C as me uses less power???? They also have a water heater, refrigerator, microwave etc and use those appliances the same as I would, so how do I draw more power by using the same things? .

Since a 50 amp unit might be larger than a 30 amp unit, the A/C might run for a longer period of time. In this case, there would be more A/Cs running at the same time causing a higher load on a loop of like equipped units. As explained in previous threads, you need to look at the entire electrical loop, not just your connection.

Dave H M wrote:

jplante4 wrote:
Are they charging more for 50 amp sites? If so, then the reason is obvious.

It has been a lively discussion. However i am still wondering about the jetplane's assessment. First thing that came to my mind. :h

I saw a meme the other day that spoke the truth and eluded to this.



If a park charges $10 more a night for 50 amp, el cheapo RVers will book a 30 amp site to save $10 and run their million dollar bus through a dog bone.

The campground owner has a legitimate issue he is addressing even if he has an up to date electrical system.

- Your average 30amp RV is not pulling 30amps other than for a couple seconds when the air/con starts the compressor and then it drops way back. Our continuous load with air/con, TV and a couple other minor loads is around 15amps.
- The 30amp rating is not a continuous rating. Continuous, your 30amp pedestal is only good for 24amps.
- A string of 10 30amp pedestals won't be supplied with a 300amp circuit. The code is set up to account for the fact that it is unusual for every pedestal to be running at 30amps at the same time, so they legitimately allow the upstream circuit to be derated...maybe something like 200amps (I would have to look it up for an exact)

Now the problem with 50amp units...
- Particularly the newer ones have systems that track the consumption and run up to the 24/30amp max. Even though you aren't using more than the pedestal is rated for, you are adding 10-15amps more than a typical 30amp rig would consume and what is built into the upstream breakers design assumptions.
- Allowing people to say they won't use more power is impossible to police and will just make for angry customers when you do.

So what happens: Let's say it is a 200amp circuit feeding 10 30amp pedestals.
- 10 30amp rigs each averaging 15 amps on a hot night...The average pull is 150amps and there is enough overhead on the main circuit that as long as you don't have multiple air/con units kick on simultaneously, it can absorb the startup loads for the air/con compressors.
- 5 30amp rigs and 5 50amp rigs using load shedding systems to keep the load at 25amps. That's 75amps for the 30amp rigs and 125amps for the 50amp rigs...total 200amps...sounds like it should be OK...not really. First time someones air/con compressor kicks over, the surge will push you over 200amps and the upstream breaker pops...now you have 10 customers ticked off because it's 2am and it takes a half hour for your on call person to get dressed, drive down to the park, unlock the master panel and flip the switch...only to have it repeat in a 1/2 hr.

I've simplified a few issues but this is very much a legitimate issue.

jplante4 wrote:
Are they charging more for 50 amp sites? If so, then the reason is obvious.

It has been a lively discussion. However i am still wondering about the jetplane's assessment. First thing that came to my mind. :h

doxiemom11 wrote:
I guess that 30 amp rig running the same size A/C as me uses less power???? They also have a water heater, refrigerator, microwave etc and use those appliances the same as I would, so how do I draw more power by using the same things? I understand I would need 50 amp to run both A/C or a washer/dryer which we are also plumbed for and do not have, but the other items are standard even in 30 amp rigs.

Until you happen upon the 40' 50 amp rig that has three AC / heat pumps, a convection microwave which is essentially an electric oven, 3 TVs and satellite recievers, a huge residential fridge and a dorm fridge in the outside kitchen,an electric dryer, and an on demand water heater. Then momma whips out the blow dryer and pop goes the weasel.

That scenario is more common than ever. The new breed of the RV using public these last few years, demand all the convieniences of home dammit. They seen it on the Go RV TV show.

Those bad RV park owners that are making millions upon millions per year should be upgrading their electric services every 3 years to keep up with the trends.....those bastards lol.

Here at a certain PA state park they have a common pedestal between every two sites with 2 30 amp receptacles. They ran a 220 circuit underground and pull off of each leg to each receptacle. It alternates that way pedestal to pedestal. Then along comes Mr Bonehead who figures he can wire up his own dog bone and plug into both 30 amp recptacles and power both sides his 50 amp RV. That worked well until he plugged in and cooked everyone else who happened to be on the circuits microwave control circuit and fridge board, while killing the entire section for 3 hours. Dont know exactly what the moron did but he caused a little smoke to come from the panel. Then they called in the on call maintenance super to reset the main breaker, and fix whatever Mr Bonehead did to his pedestal.

The same weekend we watched a witch of a woman read the Park Ranger the riot act, because the 30 amp service would not power up their 50 amp super C no matter how hard they tried. It was the rangers fault we guessed.

Never under estimate the general RVing public.

Actually, I'm surprised that no one responding to this thread had mentioned Ohm's law which is very alive and well with electrical current draw. It's related to RV campground electrical issues in that the resistance created by an increase in amp draw lowers the voltage delivered to the power supply circuit. MrWizard kind of eluded to this in a post stating that a 200 amp breaker box will not supply 30 amps to 7 30 amp draw users. That would require 350 amps no matter how you cut the cheese.

As the resistance goes up with amperage increases, the voltage supplied decreases unless the amperage capability supplied on the leg current supply can deliver full 117 AC at the full load pulled from it thru it's receptacle outlets. The voltage will drop until the leg breaker trips! A 200 amp breaker will not supply 350 amps without tripping no way no how!

Want to see this for yourself? Plug you 30 amp pigtail in and read the volts on a meter and then turn on your A/C and watch the voltage drop. Also perhaps you might have noticed that extension cords and/or the end connections get warm to hot when getting close to the rated amp capacity when connected for a while but will stay cool when only at say 1/2 the rated amp capacity.

In both our RV's I have installed LED digital meters which are very cheap to purchase online form like Amazon etc for both AC and DC. The DC meter requires going thru a shunt. The meters give a constant readout of the watts, amps, volts, being consumed and an accumulative of KwH used over a desired time selected all in the digital display at the same time. A Kill-A-Watt unit will give the same but only for the selected function one at a time for an individual plugged in device on AC only. Thus, it's a portable meter vs built in constantly monitoring meters.

An electrician knows and we have seen over and over that when you first turn on an A/C roof air unit, such as a 13500 A/C unit in your RV, it will be drawing about 1300 watts after about one minute. However, after being on for an hour or more without touching the settings it will be drawing in the neighborhood of 1700 to 1900 watts depending on the outside temperature and ambient humidity. Who only runs an A/C for only one minute? Ohm's law at work as electrical resistance creates heat in the wiring and increases the resistance dropping the voltage and thus requires a higher and higher amperage draw to maintain the same function over time.

Yes, I am a retired engineer and an longtime engineering business owner and do understand much of electricals but my main discipline was automotive design and mechanical engineering as was the company I owned and ran for decades before selling and retiring.

Some RV'ers are wise and do pay attention to the amps they are drawing but that is not the norm until the breaker trips and then they usually just drop their use low enough to stay just below breaker tripping. Seen it constantly in our 53 years of RV'ing!

I guess that 30 amp rig running the same size A/C as me uses less power???? They also have a water heater, refrigerator, microwave etc and use those appliances the same as I would, so how do I draw more power by using the same things? I understand I would need 50 amp to run both A/C or a washer/dryer which we are also plumbed for and do not have, but the other items are standard even in 30 amp rigs.

It really isn't the amps you need to monitor--it is the voltage. I prefer no lower than 107 volts for running the roof air.

FLY 4 FUN wrote:
I'm enjoying the discussion. Can I ask a question of the knowledgeable electrical types here? I have a 50A rig, but its that way because they made provision for a 2nd A/C (not installed) and a washer/dryer (not installed). I tossed the 50A cord into a closet as I will never use it and almost nobody has 50A where I camp. I bought a Marinco 50A to 30A 25ft cord that threads on as usual and that's all I use. Am I tempting fate using the 30A cord as I keep a close watch on loads with my EMS surge protector. I have seen 28-30A spikes when HW tank runs at same time as microwave...but rarely trip campground pole! Don't mean to derail thread, just seems that I'm a bit naïve with my setup as I read the rationale behind the parks keeping 50A rigs out of 30A sites.

Daryll