FYI _ Good Points!

I think many are still missing the real point of the article and are hung up with the RV park and it's owner who wrote it rather than what he is saying.

As a former CEO, Business owner and founder and head of a national Association, Economics of certain industries are very interesting to me. The economics of the entire RV industry has become a bit of a hobby with me now.

Every chance I get I interview park owners about what they see and how their businesses are doing. I talk a lot to owners of Class A's and others.

I have grilled managers at CW about the business from their standpoint.

Admittedly so far this is fairly anecdotal but it shows me a couple of things that are obvious right off the bat.

As Rv'rs we are being compartmentalized economically. The industry, including many parks now are specializing in one form or another. The other day on the Good Sam Facebook page one of their endless commercials for an RV park was featured and it was a Class A ONLY park. Right on the ocean front. Sorry no lowly trailers allowed here!

This is a trend that is driven, I believe by the economics and the poor ROI of most RV Parks.

To make enough money to justify the investment, pay back the investors and service the debt you need to have hundreds of spaces with about a 60% average occupancy rate.

As the "Mom and Pop" parks age and will be put up for sale that land has now become too valuable to keep as a low-returning (as in income) business The new owners will certainty develop it.

While the trend for RV's is definitely UP with the bulge of the Baby Boom Generation coming up to retirement manufacturers are gearing up with new factories, new models and looking forward to a big profits.

But is the rest of the industry ready? Can they handle the new models and the influx of new RV'rs? Many parks were built when the longest trailer was 29 feet and had no slideouts.

There is without a doubt a big disconnect between the manufacturers and the rest of the industry and in fact, in my view, also the customer. RV parks have been way too slow too keep up with WiFi demands and the growth of personal technology. Many people now work on the road. Many "RV'ers are in the 30's and 40's and are demanding different "amenities" and it's not a new Pickleball court.

This to my mind is what this article is really about.

Thanks for re-opening the thread Mr. Mod.

The article writer mentioned the name of his CG - I won't post it, but did look it up, including reviews on RV Park Reviews. Click here to read them

It's a 55 + park with no dogs allowed - you can find the web site if you Google it. Lots of permanent mobile homes scattered throughout.

People report having to crawl under your rig to hook up the sewer connections. One person stated he had trouble getting a 24 ft TT into a spot.

Pictures show Motor homes stacked like dominoes.

I think the manufacturers are off the hook.

PS... Who is "2012 Coachman"? :H

OK the 2nd chance offering got my attention. I reviewed the entire thread,.... Thanks.
It seems to me that the OP is bringing up this subject due to the recent semi-luxury 45ft coaches that several manufacturers are now producing. They are all-electric, and have at least 3 air conditioners, plus other power-hungry features. Nice units, IMO.
The first thing that comes to my mind is that if I had the 3/4 million dollars to buy one, it just seems that I would seek out the existing coach "resorts", because that's where I would prefer to stay. However, the RV park (just the way it is) that he owns sounds perfect for me and my 40 Dutch Star. And, IMO there's a whole lot of us out here.
And, on the issue of new buyers of these monsters being dangerous on the highway, IMO nobody is going to do anything about it until the statistics on fatalities go way up.
I don't want say he doesn't "have a point", because he's the one that knows more about it than I. It's just that I wanted to voice my opinion. Thanks

After reviewing this thread, I have decided to re-open it. However, rude and disrespectful comments will not be tolerated with no further discussion or notice.

It's still horse stuff...

I'm sorry, but there are lots of dealerships in my area - usually on the highway. Passing by, you can see multitudes of RV's of every shape and size. I know two people that have purchased popups in the past 2 months. I'm sure the article writer can accommodate them.

Sure, there are some manufacturers who are putting out just huge power hungry vehicles. They do it because they have a customer base for those products. And the people buying these aren't going to come to the authors CG. They don't care how well you can drive it either. Imagine having the money to buy one, but you can't since the manufacturer requires a driving test first - or successfully launching a boat before you could purchase one.

This guy doesn't seem to understand the typical camper - they don't all go out and buy huge rigs, bring them to a CG such as his and wind up disappointed because they can't use their 400 volt hookup. I'm sure the owner and the manager comes out and they all stand about the site and wail about the evil manufacturer - curses on them!

In regards to the show people put on when pulling/backing, everyone has to start somewhere. It took me 2 hours to get my 25 footer into my driveway the first time. Too bad you missed it - you could have posted about it too.

If this guy wants to attract more business from people he can accommodate, then he needs to learn how to market his CG. Crying about it, and blaming the manufactures isn't going to get him very far.

Imagine being the CEO of this company and mandating that a study be done to see how well CG's around the country can accommodate their product line, and then scaling back production because a lot of them can't. He'd be packing boxes in his office.

The RV's that can fit in his sites outnumber the ones that can't. For some reason, they are not coming to stay there. That's not on the manufacturer of the ones who can't fit in his sites.

The author isn't saying manufacturers shouldn't make improvements, etc., but simply that manufacturers should make sure there is a viable source to make those improvements useful.

They are making them for one reason..because that's what people must be asking for and then they can sell them and make money. which is the only reason they are in business. They don't care about if the infrastructure is in place for 100 amp service or not..thats your problem.

4X4Dodger wrote:

mockturtle wrote:
Yes, he makes some good points. I was recently in a small, older RV park where a large group of 40-footers moved in for the night. The sites were not really adequate in size or facilities but no doubt the owner had assured the club otherwise. I would guess there were a few unhappy campers.

But, while the industry may be making bigger and more complex rigs, much of the population is going for smaller, more energy-efficient rigs. Like mine! :)

I see that trend alot out here on the road full time. The industry is behind the curve on this one...which is not that unusual.

One thing is for sure there are way too many people out here driving huge vehicles that have NO BUSINESS doing so. I watch so many of them cant turn, cant back, cant park. Some cant even get into the fuel pumps successfully.

In my book if you cant back it up into a tight spot you've got no business driving it at all. I can tell immediately by the way a driver "sets up" his/her approach to a parking space just how competent they are at backing.

The sad part is I see so many very angry and contentious arguments between the parties involved in backing up a huge rig that it makes you wonder if you are not witnessing a divorce in action.

People with rigs over 26k and over a certain length need training and licensing. Air brakes require a separate test for a class b or class a license and any rig with airbrakes should require the same of an RV owner. If you cant pass the test you shouldn't own the vehicle. Period.

4X4Dodger, I think you have it pretty well covered.

It isn't that the park operator may not want to upgrade, he is speaking of the need, how often do these high demand rigs come into the park? The cost of upgrading, likely more than the $1,000 cost stated. Why have cable, nice to offer, it would be interesting to know what the service for a park cost per month? He might think about upgrading a limited number of spaces, and charge accordingly.

Then there is the ability to operate their rigs, just look at some of the post in here were the poster is getting ready to retire and just bought a 40 5er, and a diesel dually, never RVed before, but wants to travel the country. Their post is how do I back this monster rig up! :S Just because I am not making a living driving my RV, doesn't mean I should be able to operate it with the same license as my little car.
As Veebyes pointed out, great entertainment can be had at boat launches and campgrounds people watching!!!

There are times when I envy the owners of Class A motor homes.

There are times when I envy the owners of pop up trailers.

I know what I want and I don't need to rent or buy anymore RVs to figure it out: a TT with enough power to operate a coffeemaker, dedicated freezer, and hairdryer. Simultaneously;).

DSDP Don wrote:

2012 Coachman wrote:
What a load of horse stuff...

The writer is railing against the RV manufacturers because they are making products that are not compatible with his campground? He can't afford cable hookups and has narrow sites, so somehow this is a "chasm" between him and the manufacturers?

I guess he hasn't noticed that manufacturers make a wide spectrum of RV's that are compatible with his park - but for some reason he can't attract them.

Or maybe he doesn't know the meaning of competition - that since a TT has a cable hookup, and watching cable TV is a necessity for the owner, that his CG will be passed by for one that has the hookups.

I didn't see any suggestions offered - most likely because its a non issue.

I think "2012 Coachman" got it exactly right. Several of you read about rigs that may come with 100 amp service and suddenly the world is coming to an end. Well, they're out there, but they typically stay in high end specialty parks which is what most of the owners buy them for.

Just about every RV out there that has 50 amp service, still does, even on the newer models. So even with the addition of dishwashers and other electronics, the new coaches can be more efficient in some ways, like lower powered TV's, yet they can still run everything on 50 amp service (really 100 amps). So nothing has really changed.

I agree that the campground owner is griping because he's not willing to upgrade his park. I prefer 50 amps, but can easily stay in a 30 amp park. Once a year we spend a week in cold weather with just 20 amps. Everything still works!

Just because you like traveling in a 25 foot, 25 year old coach, doesn't mean others do. No matter how you feel about the RV industry, times have changed and RV's have grown. If the campground owner isn't willing to keep up, then he'll fall by the wayside or will be forced to cater to older/smaller RV's.

Always like the way that people with 25 year old, $3000.00 coaches always take a shot at anyone who buys something nicer than them. It always the same statement....."I don't need all that new stuff". How about just saying....I enjoy my coach and these smaller parks still work well for us.

Well, my RV is 40 years old and 21 ft, so I guess you're not accusing me of taking shots at anyone buying something "nicer" than me (and "nicer" is awfully subjective don't you think - especially since I think my rig is "nicer" than any $150K+ rig out there).

I have no problem with people buying big rigs, expensive rigs, etc. It's their life, their choice.

But this article isn't about "I enjoy my coach and these smaller parks still work well for us", it's about an industry that keeps pushing the envelope and doesn't give the infrastructure any time to catch up. This isn't us poor folks whining about the rich folk. This is about pushing small businesses into very expensive upgrades or risking the loss of their business. What often happens in situations like this is that those small businesses sell out because they can't afford to keep up, and soon there are 3 big RV Park companies running the majority of parks and no one has any options left.

2012 Coachman wrote:
What a load of horse stuff...

The writer is railing against the RV manufacturers because they are making products that are not compatible with his campground? He can't afford cable hookups and has narrow sites, so somehow this is a "chasm" between him and the manufacturers?

I guess he hasn't noticed that manufacturers make a wide spectrum of RV's that are compatible with his park - but for some reason he can't attract them.

Or maybe he doesn't know the meaning of competition - that since a TT has a cable hookup, and watching cable TV is a necessity for the owner, that his CG will be passed by for one that has the hookups.

I didn't see any suggestions offered - most likely because its a non issue.

I think "2012 Coachman" got it exactly right. Several of you read about rigs that may come with 100 amp service and suddenly the world is coming to an end. Well, they're out there, but they typically stay in high end specialty parks which is what most of the owners buy them for.

Just about every RV out there that has 50 amp service, still does, even on the newer models. So even with the addition of dishwashers and other electronics, the new coaches can be more efficient in some ways, like lower powered TV's, yet they can still run everything on 50 amp service (really 100 amps). So nothing has really changed.

I agree that the campground owner is griping because he's not willing to upgrade his park. I prefer 50 amps, but can easily stay in a 30 amp park. Once a year we spend a week in cold weather with just 20 amps. Everything still works!

Just because you like traveling in a 25 foot, 25 year old coach, doesn't mean others do. No matter how you feel about the RV industry, times have changed and RV's have grown. If the campground owner isn't willing to keep up, then he'll fall by the wayside or will be forced to cater to older/smaller RV's.

Always like the way that people with 25 year old, $3000.00 coaches always take a shot at anyone who buys something nicer than them. It always the same statement....."I don't need all that new stuff". How about just saying....I enjoy my coach and these smaller parks still work well for us.