Forum Discussion
- Our electric power company is gleefully awaiting their profits from us propane users. We have 3 electric heaters going during the day at various times to warm up the house. Luckily the living room windows to face south to let the sun help in warming us up. But we are wearing more layers of clothing. This morning we have about -50°F wind chill and around -20°F air temp. Too bad we're about 2 miles from a natural gas line.
The propane company gave us 200 gallons at the beginning of this month and asked to lower the thermostat as they were rationing their customers due to the propane shortage. But I still feel that we are paying for the lack of someones planning. :R - Just to throw more fuel onto the fire (If you'll pardon the pun) A natural gas pipeline can have problems too like they are having now.
http://www.mprnews.org/story/2014/01/26/xcel-asks-some-customers-to-cut-natural-gas-usage- arizal wrote:
CNG is stored at around 3,000 psi in a compressed gaseous form rather than liquid like LPG so the cost of a storage tank many thousands of dollars more expensive than those used for Propane. Also the amount of BTUs stored in the same sized tank would be much less with CNG as you would not have the advantage of a vaporizing liquid in the tank.
The CNG delivery truck would be ultra expensive and heavy as it would have to be a tube trailer with least a 3,000 pound rating. The only way to make CNG viable is to have a pump at the end of the Natural Gas pipe line to fill the very expensive DOT approved CNG tanks in vehicles. This is why it is seen mainly in city fleets. The tax payers can afford it and it makes the mayor feel like his city is working at being greener.
If you have the ability to fill CNG tanks, you probably already have natural gas at your residence.
ArizAl
Finally FACTS.
CNG works if you want a tank several times bigger than a propane tank, that costs several times MORE! In a couple decades, you will break even. This is assuming you have CNG available at all. MOST areas do NOT. Very limited availability.DiskDoctr wrote:
john&bet wrote:
DiskDoctr wrote:
I do not believe it is as simple as you let on. At least for us out way from big cities.
Simple solution. Propane suppliers want to gouge? Switch over to CNG.
We are over $5/gal here in Western PA.
Let them make their blood money while people are trying not to die in freakishly cold weather, then they can choke on it when we remember who screwed us and we choose not to patronize them...or their industry if we can help it.
Anyone know the possibilities of converting rv appliances to CNG?
It may not be, but here's the thinking on this one.
1. CNG involves compressing natural gas for storage and use similar to propane. CNG vehicles exist already, as do home compressors for people who want to use natural gas to fill their cars.
2. Converting *some* appliance from natural gas to propane and vice versa already exists. Sometimes it is only adjusting an orifice, sometimes replacing an orifice, sometimes (like the Bosch rangetop I just installed for DW) it involves changing the orifice AND the venturi tube (some stoves have adjustable air supply)
3. CNG has (less, IIRC?) BTU's per volume than propane.
4. Vapor gas burning is simply a matter of volume of gas and volume of air mixture, so theoretically, even appliances not designed for conversion *could* be converted, simply a matter of effort and/or expense of orifice/air parts.
Like most people, I really hate being screwed. IF there is a practical way to get out from under the unscrupulous thumbs of gougers, I am all for it.
As I said, a lot of work was done in the past in an attempt to make CNG compete with propane, but propane was so cheap. Now it is not.
Maybe time to dust off the innovations?
Nothing would please me more to see someone who gouges lose not only their advantage, but their entire market. :D
1. That's fine, IF you have natural gas to your residence. We don't, and the nearest gas line is about 5 miles away.
2. True, but without the gas, useless.
3. See #2.
4. Again, see #2
"Like most people, I really hate being screwed. IF there is a practical way to get out from under the unscrupulous thumbs of gougers, I am all for it."
Of course, low supply and high demand, and the difficulty and cost of transport has nothing to do with it, it is all those nasty gougers, right?- CNG is stored at around 3,000 psi in a compressed gaseous form rather than liquid like LPG so the cost of a storage tank many thousands of dollars more expensive than those used for Propane. Also the amount of BTUs stored in the same sized tank would be much less with CNG as you would not have the advantage of a vaporizing liquid in the tank.
The CNG delivery truck would be ultra expensive and heavy as it would have to be a tube trailer with least a 3,000 pound rating. The only way to make CNG viable is to have a pump at the end of the Natural Gas pipe line to fill the very expensive DOT approved CNG tanks in vehicles. This is why it is seen mainly in city fleets. The tax payers can afford it and it makes the mayor feel like his city is working at being greener.
If you have the ability to fill CNG tanks, you probably already have natural gas at your residence.
ArizAl - Price of shelled corn is only coming down because the ethenol fiasco drove the price up so high that the only direction it could go is down.
- That's sort of wrong. Corn can be dried on the stalk in the fiel to 15% moisture. They do it a lot of places including here in VA and in OK-TX. Corn silage is cut green and put up in, upright, pit or bagged.
Water-Bug wrote:
CavemanCharlie wrote:
My friend that has a wood burner in his house is laughing at all of us now. Epically since last spring we had a big ice storm that knocked down many branches and even whole trees so he got all the wood for free. He did have so cut some of it up and split most of it though.
And yes, I've seen little wood burners that you can put in your RV. I wouldn't want to do it but, they do have them.
Wood pellet stoves use a renewable fuel source, burn clean, are easy to install nearly anywhere, and can be automated and thermostatically controlled. There are even wood pellet boilers available but at a much higher expense.
I'm laughing too. I burn shelled corn which is renewable and the price is coming down instead of up.CavemanCharlie wrote:
My friend that has a wood burner in his house is laughing at all of us now. Epically since last spring we had a big ice storm that knocked down many branches and even whole trees so he got all the wood for free. He did have so cut some of it up and split most of it though.
And yes, I've seen little wood burners that you can put in your RV. I wouldn't want to do it but, they do have them.
Wood pellet stoves use a renewable fuel source, burn clean, are easy to install nearly anywhere, and can be automated and thermostatically controlled. There are even wood pellet boilers available but at a much higher expense.SRT wrote:
I hate to say it, but climate change/warming has been going on for millions of years......:R
X2. There is no scientific dispute over the fact that the Great Lakes were formed from the receding glaciers from the last ice age. I wonder if the indians shot their horses and dowsed their campfires to prevent global warming. Those Great Lakes flowing into the Atlantic Ocean for the past million years haven't raised the ocean level an inch.
