Health Care Costs

As far as someone paying for someone else's insurance...most people get insurance from their employer. Where do you suppose employer's get money to pay for that coverage? They price their products and services to recoup the cost don't they? So who pays for that? Are consumers paying for insurance for all those folks? Does that extra charge increase the quality of that product or service? When a dollar leaves my pocket does it matter if it is in taxes (taxes, by the way that I can partially avoid through deductions and IRA contributions) or if it leaves to go toward a product or service that is no better for me paying more for it. Seems to me that we have been subsidizing insurance in the private sector far more than we do through the ACA.

The latest statistics show that between 43% and 49% of the U.S. population are dependent on the government for their livelihood. They pay no taxes and are paid in some states as much as $40.00 an hour in assistance.

I don't presume to speak to Popbeaver's situation, but for me I can retire at 62 because for the price of my pre ACA plan with it's high deductible and lack of prescription coverage at all, I now have a full price silver plan. When I add up all the costs of each plan my silver plan is cheaper than the old plan that never even met deductible on unless I had surgery. Millions of self employed will tell you the same thing.

I see some big misconceptions here. Regarding subsidies...it is true that people below a certain income level get help from the government in paying for their insurance...but where that money comes from seems foggy for many. You think it's coming out of your pocket..and a little bit of it is. The government is paying out on one hand, but on the other hand they are saving in other programs like medicaid, medicare, food stamps and welfare. You may have noticed last week that the CBO says that the ACA is saving the government billions and reducing the deficit. This happens because people with insurance go to the doctor regularly or at least when they first get sick. Google up some comparisons between the cost of a doctor's visit vs and ER visit, or the difference between treatment of cancer at stage one compared to stage three. Or just look at any disease you'd like and compare costs saved by early treatment. Good, timely medical treatment and having insurance means that fewer people are facing medical bankruptcies (was the leading cause of bankruptcy in the US)so they don't need unemployment, food stamps, welfare, medicaid, etc.

Our dysfunctional congress gave us a far less than perfect ACA and continues to make it impossible to fix things that are wrong with it (for instance, if dad gets insurance at work but the cost of adding family members is cost prohibitive, but it is technically available, the family is not eligible for subsidies to insure mom and kids. This was an unintended glitch but there is no chance of congress fixing it is there? There are several others) However, imperfect as it is ACA has averted the certain train wreck our economy was headed toward and had it not been implemented total health care costs would have almost doubled by the end of this year. We would have been worse off that we were in 2008.

And the 51% vs 49% not only lost Romney the election, it was not accurate to start with.

" Subsidies apply to all plans, with the silver plans being the benchmark and hence getting the best subsidies."

I really studied this in Dec 2013 when I HAD to get insurance through the marketplace. It may be different depending upon which state one is in. All my comments relate to my state of Michigan. Here, ANY Federal subsidies can only be used on silver plans, all of which have a $1500 deductible and large copay limit.

wing_zealot wrote:

PopBeavers wrote:
I like ObamaCare....We have a top tier Kaiser plan. We pay $3.00 for an office visit and $3.00 for a 30 day prescription. Monthly payment for both of us is $76.00.
...

Of course you like your plan. Cause someone else (like me) is paying the other $97.00 for your office visit and the other $125.00 for your prescriptions. What did you think happened, office calls suddenly got cheaper? What happened, is you got a free ride while someone else got stuck with your bill. Of course you like ObamaCare.

Agree 1000%. And the purpose of the plan was to make healthcare affordable for those who could not afford it, not to allow people to quit their jobs and vacation for the rest of their lives. People would be shouting from the rooftops if Popbeavers said they found out they could screw off at work so they get fired and then have the government subsidize their retirement through unemployment, food stamps and welfare. But the government subsidizing their retirement through taxpayers paying for their insurance is just met with a shrug. Good thing is, their income will soon drop below the minimum threshold and if they want to continue to get government subsidized insurance they will have to accept Medicaid, which has a juicy clawback provision, so all that "free care" they will be getting will be paid back when they die and the IRS takes lead position for their estate.

steveh27 wrote:

Beaker wrote:

Medicare is not Obamacare and is much better - see my post above. The US should have gone to medicare for all, not obamacare which is a gift to the insurance companies.

Depends on which side of the fence you are sitting.
My ACA premium is $49 and MOOP is $700. I've had over $35,000 of medical bills this year and more coming, all I've paid is the $700.

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IS that the total premium or only after subsidies? Subsidies only apply to the silver plans which all have a $1500 deductible & high copay. I am very curious as to what ACA plan you have......

Subsidies apply to all plans, with the silver plans being the benchmark and hence getting the best subsidies. If you make less than double the poverty level, you also get your deductibles subsidized. The cliffs that are created by the ACA (under the poverty level you MUST go on Medicaid, regardless of your net worth to qualify for any ACA support, earn $1.00 over double the poverty level and your deductibles can go from $500 to $5000 for the exact same plan. Earn over 400% of the poverty level and you are on your own and there are probably other cliffs and cutoffs I don't know about). This makes managing your income potentially beneficial. For example, it would be financially prudent to have your employer withhold any bonuses etc. in a year you were going to make just over the double threshold with that bonus so you could have a much lower deductible for the following year. Also, the penalty for earning too much is capped at $2500, so you can claim a low income, get low premiums and deductibles and still only owe the IRS $2500, even if the premiums and deductibles were wrongly subsidized $5000.

The problem is that the 51% of us who are working and paying taxes pay for the 49% who aren't paying. It seems if the 51% is to apathetic to go to the voting poles and change this. There is no free lunch!

Beaker wrote:

Medicare is not Obamacare and is much better - see my post above. The US should have gone to medicare for all, not obamacare which is a gift to the insurance companies.

Depends on which side of the fence you are sitting.
My ACA premium is $49 and MOOP is $700. I've had over $35,000 of medical bills this year and more coming, all I've paid is the $700.

.

IS that the total premium or only after subsidies? Subsidies only apply to the silver plans which all have a $1500 deductible & high copay. I am very curious as to what ACA plan you have......

Better do that RV'ing while you can still afford it.

The more that get subsidies and free healthcare/hospitalization/ prescriptions/etc, the more it will cost eveyone else and that's something you can't deny because the money has to come from somewhere and that someone is YOU! So enjoy!

Back in 2009 my wife had both knees replaced, one then 3-1/2 months later the other, and our total out of locket cost to us was $60 ($30 for each). Today since Obamacare, that our of pocket cost would be roughly $4,000+ per our niece who is the office manager for a group of surgeons who do those and other operations. This was said this Spring in April and she stated it's gotten worse ecah year for the last 4 years by a lot and they already have been alerted as to the largest increases so far that is coming for next year. Deductible are going thru the roof as are the co-pay ceilings. She sees it every day and has for 23 years now so she knows what is happening. She said that is the average however Medicaid patients have to pay nothing nor do several other types of patients who I can not identify as it would be deleted anyway.

Therefore, the insured people and others pay not only for their insurance and co-pays but also for many others today so just suck it up and shuck out! Something's very wrong to put it mildly!

I/We don't have a personal axe to grind in this healthcare area as we are in great financial shape but most people/retirees aren't! What about them?