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ognend's avatar
ognend
Explorer
Jan 14, 2015

How much weight on gooseneck/5th wheel/truck bed?

Hello,

I have a 3/4 ton GMC Sierra 2500 HD truck, 4x4, diesel, crew cab (basically all the weight adding features). We love the truck so are pretty unwilling to give up unless really necessary.

I took the truck to the scales and calculated that I can safely carry about 1900 lbs in the truck bed. How is the max legal 5th wheel/Gooseneck trailer weight calculated from here? I think I remember that the axis/tongue receiver gets about 25% of the overall trailer weight - which would give me basically the capability to carry 4x1900 lbs or not even 8,000 lbs of fully loaded trailer. I am wanting to pull a 3-horse living quarters trailer and these start dry at 7,000+ lbs. Throw in two horses at 1100 lbs each, some hay, water and other stuff and my trailer is at 10,000-12,000 lbs easy. This is not enough truck to be legally (and safely) pulling this kind of a setup, no?

I am aware of people putting in air bags in the back (but this does not make the ride any more legal or safer and does not increase weight carrying capacity - only makes the ride better). I also know people have pulled much larger weights with much smaller trucks all their lives and gotten away with it. I am NOT interested in those experiences - what I am interested in is the LEGAL stuff - if I were to get into an accident (or get pulled over) and get taken to the scales with my whole rig - would I be overweight (and hence insurance would not cover any damages) or...?

Any input welcome!

Thanks!
OD

19 Replies

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  • ognend's avatar
    ognend
    Explorer
    Jan 14, 2015
    rhagfo wrote:

    All that said it is your choice to tow over your TV's GVWR, but many do it with 250/2500's without issue.


    Thanks. That's kind of the crux of my question - do most people out there decide to max over the limits of the vehicle? What happens if you are in an accident and your rig gets taken to the scales?
  • rhagfo's avatar
    rhagfo
    Explorer III
    Jan 14, 2015
    Keep in mind the horses add almost nothing to the hitch weight, as they ride over the axles. The only items that will add to the hitch is what you add to the living quarters. The only about half or less will go to the hitch.
    My daughter uses my 2001 Ram 4X4 Cummins to pull a two horse slant, no issues. I pull a 5er that comes in at 11,000# with a GVWR of 12,320#.
    All that said it is your choice to tow over your TV's GVWR, but many do it with 250/2500's without issue.
  • ognend's avatar
    ognend
    Explorer
    Jan 14, 2015
    Bedlam wrote:
    If you are trying to stay within manufacturer warranty ratings, your current truck does not have the capacity. If you are trying to stay within legal ratings, it may be possible based on the weight declared on your vehicle registration. Let us know which way you want to go with this so we can help.


    I am trying to cover the case that an insurance company would use against me. It has been my experience that they will always try and find something to avoid covering costs and they may be right - if you are towing in an unsafe manner, exceeding manufacturer limits, maybe they shouldn't pay.

    So far, I calculated that I have about 2080 lbs free to carry. If I consider worst case scenario of 25% tongue weight - I get to carry "only" 8300 lbs of a loaded trailer including its own weight. Which leads me to the question of how is anyone within manufacturer limits on the road? I see a lot of crew cab, diesel 4x4s hauling huge rigs that in my humble estimate sometimes weigh at least 15,000 lbs. From what I understand there is not much difference even with a 3500 SRW (full ton) in carrying capacity in the same configuration as my truck.
  • Bedlam's avatar
    Bedlam
    Moderator
    Jan 14, 2015
    If you are trying to stay within manufacturer warranty ratings, your current truck does not have the capacity. If you are trying to stay within legal ratings, it may be possible based on the weight declared on your vehicle registration. Let us know which way you want to go with this so we can help.
  • Cool_Canuck's avatar
    Cool_Canuck
    Explorer
    Jan 14, 2015

    It is all pretty confusing for me. Here are my numbers at the scale (full tank of diesel and my wife next to me in the passenger seat) and on the inside of the driver door sticker:

    Steer axle: 4220 lbs
    Drive axle: 2900 lbs
    Gross weight: 7120 lbs

    The sticker on the inside of the driver door says:
    GVWR: 9200 lbs
    GAWR Front: 4670 lbs
    GAWR Rear: 6084 lbs

    My wheels are rated at 3,000 lbs as per manufacturer (they are not the stock wheels but wheels that the first owner put on the truck). Tires are Nitto load range E, 3750 lbs capacity (so they overshoot the wheels).

    Can someone guide me through the exact calculation used to find out how much weight can be put on the tongue in the truck bed?

    I am asking for the following case: we (God forbid) get into an accident and are taken to the scales. The scales put out a set of numbers and my insurance company gets these numbers. Based on these numbers they calculate that I am within carrying capacity and decide to honor insurance. Or they decide I am grossly overweight and decide not to honor it. I don't want to drive around thinking I am insured when I am not. In addition, breaking distance, safety etc. play a role. I don't want to drive around, for example, 2,000 lbs overweight and that increases my breaking distance by X feet.

    Thanks!

    According to my math a GVWR of 9,200 lbs minus scale wt 7,120 gives you a payload of 2,080 lbs. That would be your max hitch wt.

    You need something close to 15% or better of the trailer wt. on the hitch. The trailer mfg should be able to give you some numbers for the hitch weight and with a lot of math you can figure out what the loaded hitch weight will be. Find a pilot to help with that. They have to do it all the time. :)

    Some of the information in a previous post was inaccurate and could easily lead to confusion. You seem to have a good handle on it.
  • Ivylog's avatar
    Ivylog
    Explorer III
    Jan 14, 2015
    OP, where in S Fla are you? The problem I see with that type of trailer is the axles are close to the back so half of the added weight goes on the tongue. If you can find a trailer with the axles further forward so more of the horse weight goes on the trailer axles you might have enough truck. You do not need 25% of the weight on the tongue but by doing this the manufactures can put smaller/cheaper axles and tires under the trailer. I'd look at horse trailers at Stomski Horse Trailers in Lake Worth and help in deciding what will work safely with the truck you already have.
    *They currently have this used unit that looks promising as the axles are much further forward than most. Tell them Dick B sent you.

  • ognend's avatar
    ognend
    Explorer
    Jan 14, 2015
    JIMNLIN wrote:
    First off a trucks GVWR doesn't determine how much load any truck can carry legally. Your state motor vehicle size and weight folks can help you with the legal aspect of how much weight you may carry per the truck mfg stickered ratings.

    Your trucks legal/safe hitch load capacities revolve around the trucks RAWR as its going to carry the hitch load placed in the bed. Course everyone knows the tires capacity is equal or may exceed the highest FAWR or RAWR.
    And your state may require you to have some type of weight for registration/tax paid purposes. Some do not as mine. We simply carry hitch weight up to the RAWRs/tire load capacities.

    It pretty simple to figure how much hitch load any truck can carry safely if you have separate front and rear axle weights.
    Example; Many 2500 trucks may have a 2800-2900 rear axle weight when empty. Subtract that number from your trucks 6200 RAWR leaves you with approx 3200-3300 lbs for a payload.

    Some folks use the GVWR method of subtracting the trucks scaled weight from its GVWR. Folks with "some" of the new trucks with those high GVWR numbers need to be aware that GVWR payload number can overload the trucks RAWR/tires.


    It is all pretty confusing for me. Here are my numbers at the scale (full tank of diesel and my wife next to me in the passenger seat) and on the inside of the driver door sticker:

    Steer axle: 4220 lbs
    Drive axle: 2900 lbs
    Gross weight: 7120 lbs

    The sticker on the inside of the driver door says:
    GVWR: 9200 lbs
    GAWR Front: 4670 lbs
    GAWR Rear: 6084 lbs

    My wheels are rated at 3,000 lbs as per manufacturer (they are not the stock wheels but wheels that the first owner put on the truck). Tires are Nitto load range E, 3750 lbs capacity (so they overshoot the wheels).

    Can someone guide me through the exact calculation used to find out how much weight can be put on the tongue in the truck bed?

    I am asking for the following case: we (God forbid) get into an accident and are taken to the scales. The scales put out a set of numbers and my insurance company gets these numbers. Based on these numbers they calculate that I am within carrying capacity and decide to honor insurance. Or they decide I am grossly overweight and decide not to honor it. I don't want to drive around thinking I am insured when I am not. In addition, breaking distance, safety etc. play a role. I don't want to drive around, for example, 2,000 lbs overweight and that increases my breaking distance by X feet.

    Thanks!
  • JIMNLIN's avatar
    JIMNLIN
    Explorer III
    Jan 14, 2015
    First off a trucks GVWR doesn't determine how much load any truck can carry legally. Your state motor vehicle size and weight folks can help you with the legal aspect of how much weight you may carry per the truck mfg stickered ratings.

    Your trucks legal/safe hitch load capacities revolve around the trucks RAWR as its going to carry the hitch load placed in the bed. Course everyone knows the tires capacity is equal or may exceed the highest FAWR or RAWR.
    And your state may require you to have some type of weight for registration/tax paid purposes. Some do not as mine. We simply carry hitch weight up to the RAWRs/tire load capacities.

    It pretty simple to figure how much hitch load any truck can carry safely if you have separate front and rear axle weights.
    Example; Many 2500 trucks may have a 2800-2900 rear axle weight when empty. Subtract that number from your trucks 6200 RAWR leaves you with approx 3200-3300 lbs for a payload.

    Some folks use the GVWR method of subtracting the trucks scaled weight from its GVWR. Folks with "some" of the new trucks with those high GVWR numbers need to be aware that GVWR payload number can overload the trucks RAWR/tires.
  • eHoefler's avatar
    eHoefler
    Explorer II
    Jan 14, 2015
    Look at the GVWR label of the proposed trailer. Take the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating and subtract the Axle Weight Rating. This is the amount of weight expected to be carried by the tow vehicle at max load.

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