The title says it all. I hear so many people saying "you will be over", "you need a truck with a V8", "You can't tow with that size vehicle". This is especially true to a newbie, trying to get into RVing, and doesn't have the resources for a big truck to tow a big trailer. They may have a smaller SUV and looking to get a small trailer. Everyone is saying "They can't do it". That was even said to me. All that my baby diesel can pull is a small popup. As you can tell, I downsized 2' from what I wanted and about 1000 pounds.So, all of that got me thinking, when I was towing the Busch North Car with my Dually, what was my weight. Should I criticize anyone about weight (unless they are talking real stupid about what they want to tow and tow with).First off, my tow vehicle at the time was a 91 F350, 4x2 dually with a 7.3l international engine and a Gale Banks turbo setup, an E4OD transmission, and 4:10 gears. Advertised tow rating was 10,900, and the rig was 10,000 GVW.Race car trailer. I believe it was a Featherlite, and it was about 42 feet in length. It had a gas tank and an onan generator. Went looking, and a similar size trailer today weighs in around 7200 pounds without any options. so, lets call it 7500 pounds. Lets do simple math and guestamates.Trailer 7500Race Car 3200Pit Box 2000Tires and Rims 400Spare Parts 2000Other******1000Grand estimate16,100 pounds...what would that put me? About 5200lbs over?Of course, we weren't the only ones towing this way. Not many Busch North teams had big rigs back then. My only casualty was the E4OD transmission. To this day, that transmission made me hate Fords.So, what do you think about the guy who is 100 pounds or so over GVW or "tow rating"?? This guys says, go ahead, live your life, enjoy your camper, and be safe. You only live once, enjoy it while you can.By the way, the local short tracks, those tow rigs were real scary! For a while, I didn't even know trailer brakes existed, because no one I knew had one! Never even heard of a weight distribution hitch!

I'm towing with a 4 door freightliner, my trailer is 41 feet long and 14,400 pounds empty, been waiting for the nay sayers to tell me my truck wont haul that trailer or I might be over my trucks limits, and there are plenty of them on this board, I'm sure I will get flamed for this post

I'm towing with a 4 door freightliner, my trailer is 41 feet long and 14,400 pounds empty, been waiting for the nay sayers to tell me my truck wont haul that trailer or I might be over my trucks limits, and there are plenty of them on this board, I'm sure I will get flamed for this post No, you're good to go. You've got a diesel and a dually, the bare minimum for anything bigger than a pop-up ;)

Anyone remember the Lucy & Desi movie "The Long, Long Trailer"? It is very educational for newbies. Remember slowly lumbering up a hill and all the rocks move,

Being overweight doesn't mean you will encounter a tragic, catastrophic failure, it means that you have increased the risk of having one. The tricky part is you cannot calculate what that risk is easily. Without a doubt it will have an impact on the vehicle of some type in safety performance, maintenance cost and service life.

You know, you have a good point. And like you I tend to side with the OP if possible and he/she can keep the "rig" legal (meaning axle and tire ratings, period. Don't give a******about GVWR, Payload, nor GCWR). However, in the case of the earlier OP, that we both responded too, there was no way to keep that combination legal much less safeThe problem isn't the OP (especially Newbies) nor this forum's members generally but a salesman somewhere got a newbie or uneducated individual into a bad situation that can't be corrected. The salesman that sold that trailer to the earlier OP should be put in jail for that little stuntAs to your example from previous years. You weren't that bad. Those trucks could deal with that until the transmissions failed, as you found out. This was also the time frame before truck manufactures started raising published tow ratings without actually doing anything significant to the trucks suspensions. The numbers back then were a lot more realistic. How do you think we got into this situation where it is practically impossible to pull a TT/FW at the manufactures tow rating because in reality it overloads the truck

Posts about weight got me thinking (RANT of sorts)

49 Replies

fla-gypsy
Explorer
Apr 05, 2014
ChooChooMan74 wrote:
fla-gypsy wrote:
pitch wrote:
Of all the thousands of RV's you see traveling up and down the roads, how many have you actually seen disabled or wrecked? Of the few that you do see, how many can you definitively were disabled due to overload situation?
I have never weighed my rig, probably never will. I am real close to my payload and probably slightly over I defy anyone to show me how I am a danger on the road.
Common Sense folks Common Sense

You only need to see 1 to realize the risks involved. Do what you want to, but irresponsible actions do have consequences.
Everything you do has a risk. You could have a dually towing a popup and get into a wreck. I think the way you drive can be more irresponsible than what you drive.

Yeah but that's not what we are talking about here now is it? What a ridiculous thing to say when someone is purposely towing over the GVWR but as already seen the ratings established by the makers mean nothing to some folks. Towing over weight and hoping nothing happens is not a strategy, it's ignorance.
NC_Hauler
Explorer
Apr 04, 2014
I believe there is a misunderstanding here...When I look at GVW of an rv, I know that is how much it can weigh...most give the "shipping weight" and then a CCC (cargo carrying capacity) rating...I agree that most would NOT fill their RV to the MAX GVW of the unit ...BUT, as the gentlemen a couple post back stated, he's loaded his unit with as much as possible, and even more....I would wonder what the weight is, just to make sure I was safe...thus the reason you do hear a lot about weighing one's unit. I would rather err to the side of safety and go by "worse case" then to overload the rv and not even know it...It's amazing how much "stuff" some load into their TT or 5er, or pop up, whatever...One doesn't really realize it until they unload completely and look at what all they took out of it, (been there done that:)). I've never overloaded a 5er, but if I were full timing or something like that, I probably would load it heavier than it is now...There is normally just the wife and I with our two boxers and our basement has a lot of room left in right now..GVW of unit is 16,950# and it's loaded to 15,940#, if I remember correctly, but again, believe some would be surprised if they did all the weights...I was first time I ever did, it can be an eye opener. I learned a lot from some research...but I tend to err to the side of keeping truck and rv in excellent condition with out abusing them and try to keep under weights and tend to not towing faster than 65mphs..It's worked for me. and I feel it's a little safer, but that's just my opinion and not worth much on some topics.
OhhWell
Explorer
Apr 04, 2014
Ryan*Elli wrote:
As you can see from my post history I too shy away from posts like these that involve weights and opinions. The opinion that really gets me is the guy that say "you need to plan for 3000lbs." Where do they get these numbers? I am in the Army and going to school in TX. The Army pays for the additional weight you bring as part of the move allowance. I packed my camper with clothes for a year, uniforms, computer, printer, dishes, pots and pans, tools, awning mat, chairs, TV's, electric heater, vacuum, coffee maker, toaster oven, and on and on. The grand total was just over 2100lbs. This thing had every item I could fit in here and would need this year. Oh, including a household mattress. Many times sounds advice is given but as many have stated the advice on modifications and how much to add is just crazy. Great post ChooChoo.
Ryan

I never quite understood that either. I've heard so many times people say something like, the CCC is 2,800 lbs. so assume you will have that much stuff. It's not like there is some sort of crazy vacuum that sucks stuff into the trailer right up until the GVWR.
NC_Hauler
Explorer
Apr 04, 2014
When loading one's TT or 5er, most should use the GVW of their RV. We were talking about tow vehicles and weights we put in and on them. As far as loading one's trailer, you have axle ratings and GVW ratings, over loading the TT or 5er, to me, if actually overloaded, could be more worrisome than overloading one's TV...The tires on whatever it is one is towing could be the limiting factor...I'd want to make sure I aired my tires to recommended tire pressure and I'd still watch my speed when towing and I'd still not want to over load the unit I'm towing. Believe there might be a better chance of tire failure, especially if someone is overloaded AND towing faster than recommended speed that is printed on the sidewall of the tire.
Ryan_Elli1
Explorer
Apr 04, 2014
As you can see from my post history I too shy away from posts like these that involve weights and opinions. The opinion that really gets me is the guy that say "you need to plan for 3000lbs." Where do they get these numbers? I am in the Army and going to school in TX. The Army pays for the additional weight you bring as part of the move allowance. I packed my camper with clothes for a year, uniforms, computer, printer, dishes, pots and pans, tools, awning mat, chairs, TV's, electric heater, vacuum, coffee maker, toaster oven, and on and on. The grand total was just over 2100lbs. This thing had every item I could fit in here and would need this year. Oh, including a household mattress. Many times sounds advice is given but as many have stated the advice on modifications and how much to add is just crazy. Great post ChooChoo.
Ryan
noteven
Explorer III
Apr 04, 2014
mdamerell wrote:

I've seen the de-rated GVWR before but maybe it's just me. If you buy a truck with a de-rated GVWR and then want to pull the designed GVWR, don't you want your cake and eat it too? :h

Have a good day :)

I had a great day and I like cake :)...

I was in contact with Chrysler and received this reply:

"You should be aware that we rate at just below 10,000 lbs. because DOT laws come into play at 10,001 lbs. So commercial customers requested it."
mdamerell
Explorer
Apr 03, 2014
06Fargo wrote:

A person can commute by train and bicycle to his job all his life, and never own a car. He can rent a car twice a year to drive to the next city, driving 200 miles total a year. He can retire from said job, go buy a 4500 dooley wheel and a 40 foot tridrive big fiver that weighs 28,000lbs and drive away to electric brakes rv travel dreams and as long as the door sticker is not exceeded by even 500lbs we are all safe on the road.

No proof of driving competence required.

The RV industry has a good lobby. If they made people take tests and pay fees like they do on the commercial side they would not sell the larger RV's.

Yep up north you all have your own set of rules ;) You get to drive 13 hours vs my 11 hours a day.

I've seen the de-rated GVWR before but maybe it's just me. If you buy a truck with a de-rated GVWR and then want to pull the designed GVWR, don't you want your cake and eat it too? :h

Have a good day :)
noteven
Explorer III
Apr 03, 2014
mdamerell wrote:
06Fargo wrote:
Pickup truck: from OEM info GCWR is 23,000lbs. From door sticker: Front axle 5200 lbs, rear axle 6200 lbs (total 11,400 lbs), but the sticker GVWR is 9900 lbs.

Neighbor's Kenworth: from OEM info GCWR is 140,000lbs. From door sticker: Front axle 13,200 lbs. , rear axle 46,000 lbs (total is 59,200 lbs.) Sticker GVWR is 59,200 lbs. (it appears someone at Kenworth can add?)

Couple of items to ponder:
1- By "bridge law" the tractor can only weight 47,200# on the interstate That's 34,000# tandem axle and 13,200# for the steer (single axle is 20,000# or axle/tire rating). He can only do the 59,200# off road. 46,000# (2 - 23,000# axles) rears last longer and durability is the name of the game. When you rack up 500,000 miles in 4-5 years (half that time for a team) you want the truck to last. As for the 140,000# GCWR, the standard truck is limited to 80,000# unless you have special permits. This truck will normally operate no where near it's design limits.

2- There are other limiting items in the drive train other than the raw axle ratings of a pickup. Brake size, transmission, u-joints, engine, suspension, all affect GVWR.

hi mdamerell - sorry I should have stated the heavy duty truck in the example 1 is operating in western Canada - at 12,500lbs front, 37,500lbs drives in summer and up to 46,000lbs under permit in winter, and 140,000 lbs GCWR (no permit, just axles req'd) with some machines he moves requiring permitting at up to 200,000lbs. The owner told me the unit (tractor jeep and 16 wheel trailer) weighs if I remember - 85,000lbs empty. It doesn't do this work at 60mph up hill and down everywhere it goes, like we want our rv outfits to :)

The pickup in example 2 is a Dodge 3500 single rear wheel. The frame, suspension, axles, brakes, driveline part numbers are shared with it's same model year dual rear wheel counterpart. The hub offset adapters, wheels, and tires are different (tires are smaller, 6 instead of 4). The Chrysler dealer people that were kind enough to look up some part numbers suggested the lower GVWR sticker number must help to suit some license jurisdictions where over "5 tons" or 10,000lbs becomes a commercial truck or something. There is no apparent capacity difference in the steel and aluminum parts that carry the same part numbers.

Now, the Kenworth owner pointed out something to me. If he hooks up to a light tandem highboy he has his Kenworth and the highboy weigh in at around 28,000 lbs empty. He needs a "class 1" (drive anything with wheels) & air brake license to drive that unit. Get stopped driving it with a "class 5" (auto) license (even with air brake endorsement) and you will get a ticket and park until a proper class driver takes over.

vs

A person can commute by train and bicycle to his job all his life, and never own a car. He can rent a car twice a year to drive to the next city, driving 200 miles total a year. He can retire from said job, go buy a 4500 dooley wheel and a 40 foot tridrive big fiver that weighs 28,000lbs and drive away to electric brakes rv travel dreams and as long as the door sticker is not exceeded by even 500lbs we are all safe on the road.

No proof of driving competence required.
mdamerell
Explorer
Apr 03, 2014
06Fargo wrote:
Pickup truck: from OEM info GCWR is 23,000lbs. From door sticker: Front axle 5200 lbs, rear axle 6200 lbs (total 11,400 lbs), but the sticker GVWR is 9900 lbs.

Neighbor's Kenworth: from OEM info GCWR is 140,000lbs. From door sticker: Front axle 13,200 lbs. , rear axle 46,000 lbs (total is 59,200 lbs.) Sticker GVWR is 59,200 lbs. (it appears someone at Kenworth can add?)

Couple of items to ponder:
1- By "bridge law" the tractor can only weight 47,200# on the interstate That's 34,000# tandem axle and 13,200# for the steer (single axle is 20,000# or axle/tire rating). He can only do the 59,200# off road. 46,000# (2 - 23,000# axles) rears last longer and durability is the name of the game. When you rack up 500,000 miles in 4-5 years (half that time for a team) you want the truck to last. As for the 140,000# GCWR, the standard truck is limited to 80,000# unless you have special permits. This truck will normally operate no where near it's design limits.

2- There are other limiting items in the drive train other than the raw axle ratings of a pickup. Brake size, transmission, u-joints, engine, suspension, all affect GVWR.
ChooChooMan74
Explorer
Apr 02, 2014
fla-gypsy wrote:
pitch wrote:
Of all the thousands of RV's you see traveling up and down the roads, how many have you actually seen disabled or wrecked? Of the few that you do see, how many can you definitively were disabled due to overload situation?
I have never weighed my rig, probably never will. I am real close to my payload and probably slightly over I defy anyone to show me how I am a danger on the road.
Common Sense folks Common Sense

You only need to see 1 to realize the risks involved. Do what you want to, but irresponsible actions do have consequences.
Everything you do has a risk. You could have a dually towing a popup and get into a wreck. I think the way you drive can be more irresponsible than what you drive.