Reese DC question - frame height

Vertical welds will cause metal to turn brittle and you will get stress cracks where it was heated as it is heat treated steel. You can stitch weld vertically but horizontal is the recommended practice.

When I fish plated my Dexter frame people said not to run long beads, better to stitch them, not sure of the reason but the welder guys said to do it that way.

myredracer wrote:
I guess you just cut the end covers off and weld new ones on?

yes

myredracer wrote:

You mentioned that you shouldn't do vertical welds on a frame. I haven't heard that before. What is the reason behind that?
Distortion? Is it everywhere or just in higher stress areas? Does it matter if it's gas or MIG welding? Can you do a stitch weld pattern vertically?

I'm not sure of the reason, I think it has something to do with the heat (haze area?) from the weld making the steel somewhat weaker or more brittle. You can search for fishplate and frame to find some discussions. Some also do an internal circle or diamond on a plate.

I welded the nuts to a plate and fished that plate down inside the frame rather than depend on the self tapping screws into the very thin walls od the A frame, worked out well I think and I didn;t have to worry about crushing the frame bolting right through it.
Good luck, setting up a new trailer is always fun.

Finally heard yesterday that the TT will be off the production line Feb. 2nd. Dealer did not have info. on the A-frame so is contacting the plant again.

I may give the idea of putting backing plates inside the A-frame tubing a re-think. I guess you just cut the end covers off and weld new ones on?

You mentioned that you shouldn't do vertical welds on a frame. I haven't heard that before. What is the reason behind that?
Distortion? Is it everywhere or just in higher stress areas? Does it matter if it's gas or MIG welding? Can you do a stitch weld pattern vertically?

mrekim wrote:

myredracer wrote:

Are those studs just threaded into just the 1/4" radiused plate and is it welded on?

Right now the studs are threaded in, but they will be welded from the back. and ground flush. The photo was really to show what the ground down radius looks like. In your case, I was thinking of a plate like this as the shim you mentioned for the DC frame mount.

The plate is not welded on. I guess it could be. There are some rules for welding on frames - like no vertical welds, so a welded solution would have to be done by someone who knows there stuff. I was looking for a solution where I didn't have to modify the frame any more.

If you have a backing plate inside the frame you could sandwich the plate between the DC and the frame too.


There are some photos of how it will be installed here:

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/27245286/gotomsg/27437823.cfm#27437823

I'm not suggesting you do it this way, it's just to give you some ideas.

Even with the 1/4" external plate, the internal backing plate is way less work than what I have done.

myredracer wrote:

I just can't see them holding in the 1/8" A-frame wall that long.

They would not hold well for me. Not even with locktite. For a 1/8" frame I would at the very least use the rivnut kit Reese offers. I'm not convinced that just the rivnut kit is enough though.

myredracer wrote:

I was thinking of using a re-enforcing plate on the inside of the A-frame and through-bolting from the outside

1/4" does not affect the geometry at all?

I think the inner plate is a good approach. I think it's still a good idea to have a lot of surface area flush to the frame. If you use washers to make the bottom of the DC mount flush to the frame then the washers (I think) present a point load to the face of the frame should the DC mount try to rotate. I don't know if the inner plate helps in dealing with that point load or not.



I don't think the 1/4" affects the geometry. At least not between the DC and the snap up. Remember that the 1/4" Plate is acting as a shim to deal with the radius too. If you don't used it, you're still going to need something to space the mount out 1/16 to 1/8". The snap up bars seemed to line up fine in my case.


If you're opening up the end(s) of a tube frame, you may want to consider something like this:


Eastwood Internal Frame Coating


Do you know how you new A-Frame will be built yet?

myredracer wrote:

Are those studs just threaded into just the 1/4" radiused plate and is it welded on?

Right now the studs are threaded in, but they will be welded from the back. and ground flush. The photo was really to show what the ground down radius looks like. In your case, I was thinking of a plate like this as the shim you mentioned for the DC frame mount.

The plate is not welded on. I guess it could be. There are some rules for welding on frames - like no vertical welds, so a welded solution would have to be done by someone who knows there stuff. I was looking for a solution where I didn't have to modify the frame any more.

If you have a backing plate inside the frame you could sandwich the plate between the DC and the frame too.


There are some photos of how it will be installed here:

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/27245286/gotomsg/27437823.cfm#27437823

I'm not suggesting you do it this way, it's just to give you some ideas.

Even with the 1/4" external plate, the internal backing plate is way less work than what I have done.

myredracer wrote:

I just can't see them holding in the 1/8" A-frame wall that long.

They would not hold well for me. Not even with locktite. For a 1/8" frame I would at the very least use the rivnut kit Reese offers. I'm not convinced that just the rivnut kit is enough though.

myredracer wrote:

I was thinking of using a re-enforcing plate on the inside of the A-frame and through-bolting from the outside

1/4" does not affect the geometry at all?

I think the inner plate is a good approach. I think it's still a good idea to have a lot of surface area flush to the frame. If you use washers to make the bottom of the DC mount flush to the frame then the washers (I think) present a point load to the face of the frame should the DC mount try to rotate. I don't know if the inner plate helps in dealing with that point load or not.



I don't think the 1/4" affects the geometry. At least not between the DC and the snap up. Remember that the 1/4" Plate is acting as a shim to deal with the radius too. If you don't used it, you're still going to need something to space the mount out 1/16 to 1/8". The snap up bars seemed to line up fine in my case.


If you're opening up the end(s) of a tube frame, you may want to consider something like this:


Eastwood Internal Frame Coating


Do you know how you new A-Frame will be built yet?

JBarca wrote:
Gil, when you get your info, post away. Glad to help.

The shocks, yes they can be a challenge but well worth it. My long camper was literately "whipping in the wind" after a bump even with the rubber equalizer. I would look in the rear view truck mirror and see about 6 to 7 oscillations of the entire trailer flexing along the length. Not good long term flexing everything like that.

Now after the shocks, there is the bump and 1 oscillation an that it it.

John

I think I've got the shock install scoped out and it looks like it will be relatively straightforward. I have a set of Monroe RB511 lower mounts but they won't fit on the new TT. Can't get the needed RB512 ones but am going to get a set made up. Pretty simple. I've already got Monroe shocks too.

Our TT was bouncing a lot at the rear. I could see the tail bobbing up and down like a duck water. Went from 800 lb to 1200 lb spring bars (had to) and that seemed to calm it down somewhat.

Interesting! I've seen photos and read about the different methods of bolting the bracket on. A crush tube from side to side, a plate on the inside with nuts welded on, re-enforcing plates, etc. Are those studs just threaded into just the 1/4" radiused plate and is it welded on? I'm not overly impressed with the forming screws. From the little reading I've done, they were originally designed for malleable and soft materials like plastic and aluminum. Very expensive too. I just can't see them holding in the 1/8" A-frame wall that long. It's surprising to see Reese make the brackets the way they do and they don't mate up to the A-frame tubing because of different radii.

I was thinking of using a re-enforcing plate on the inside of the A-frame and through-bolting from the outside

1/4" does not affect the geometry at all?

mrekim wrote:

myredracer wrote:


Related to this, I read the (long) thread on the DC setup a couple of months back. Excellent read. I am going to the opportunity to mount the cam arm brackets better this time with shims to account for the difference in the radii of the A-frame and bracket. I've noticed these brackets have moved a bit which I don't like. Will check square and true, etc. at the same time. I have a feeling the threads on the 4 bolts holding the brackets on may be slightly damaged so am going to order some new ones to be safe. Not sure if I can use a tap and similar bolt without having to use the Reese one.

If the frame is 1/8" tube I would not use the self tapping bolts and my shim would be 1/4" steel plate with a radius ground in for the DC mount - like this:

Gil, when you get your info, post away. Glad to help.

The shocks, yes they can be a challenge but well worth it. My long camper was literately "whipping in the wind" after a bump even with the rubber equalizer. I would look in the rear view truck mirror and see about 6 to 7 oscillations of the entire trailer flexing along the length. Not good long term flexing everything like that.

Now after the shocks, there is the bump and 1 oscillation an that is it.

John

Thank you very much John for all that info. and detail. Lots of thinking and reading and things to mull over and digest.

I was hoping to have heard from the dealer in the past two days, but nothing yet. Since the GVWR is not that high compared to what the frame could potentially carry, maybe the A-frame height will 6" max. in height. I may have to just wait and see what arrives but if all goes well judging what what you've outlined, I should be fine.

When I eventually get my hands on the TT, I will post a pic and comments.

The thread on what you did for tying the spring hangers together is interesting along with what you did for the shocks. I dropped by the frame shop yesterday to talk about how to install shock mounts. It looks like the lower mount will be a plate sandwiched between the springs and axle. (We have over-slung axles). The upper mount can't be higher than the lower flange because of the coroplast on one side and lack of clearance on the other. When I get the Dexter EZ-flex kit installed, I will probably get them to add the shock mounts and something to attach cross-members to.