RV association

Bob Vaughn wrote:
Why with all the RV's being built and sold and all the tv advertising to take to the open road little to nothing is being done to build more campgrounds to use them in. Especially in the south...

RV manufactures are in the business of selling RV's, they are not in the CG business. Why would they care, if you don't actually, have a place to go.

I get a huge kick out of the dealers ads, there you are on the lonesome beach, just you and the DW and dog. No one else for miles,

Sells rigs though, I doubt a picture, of the crowed spaces in a commercial CG would sell much in my opinion

A recent article in Woodalls Campground Management, by Jeff Crider, a respected journalist and publicist, wrote his opinion in a different way. He proposed that there are plenty of sites available even during peak times if the rver does some research. In another words, if the camp you want is full, there are others, you just have to look farther , open your search criteria.
An example in his article is Fishing Bridge in Yellowstone, which commonly has no availibility. However, he states there are over 60 other camps within and just outside Yellowstone that rarely reach 100% occupancy.
His approach to his hypothesis he tells me is grounded in reported sales tax revenue. This opinion is supported by David Gorin, of Gorin, Cohen & Associates, a highly successful Washinton DC camp consulting firm.
The days of ' go anywhere find a site' cheap, big enough for you are fading in prime seasons. Its still there for your 22' rig, less so for the big rig.
Explore the rationale. Dont blame the enterpreneurs who take the risk
Jeff would welcome your insight.

SDcampowneroperator wrote:
A recent article in Woodalls Campground Management, by Jeff Crider, a respected journalist and publicist, wrote his opinion in a different way. He proposed that there are plenty of sites available even during peak times if the rver does some research. In another words, if the camp you want is full, there are others, you just have to look farther , open your search criteria.
An example in his article is Fishing Bridge in Yellowstone, which commonly has no availibility. However, he states there are over 60 other camps within and just outside Yellowstone that rarely reach 100% occupancy.
His approach to his hypothesis he tells me is grounded in reported sales tax revenue. This opinion is supported by David Gorin, of Gorin, Cohen & Associates, a highly successful Washinton DC camp consulting firm.
The days of ' go anywhere find a site' cheap, big enough for you are fading in prime seasons. Its still there for your 22' rig, less so for the big rig.
Explore the rationale. Dont blame the enterpreneurs who take the risk
Jeff would welcome your insight.

While I don't doubt there are campsites that are available should you look hard enough, Mr. Crider is totally mistaken about Yellowstone. All the campsites within the park and those within the Gateway Communities are generally booked full throughout the peak season. Sales tax revenues are a poor source of information since Tax is not collected on stays in excess of 30 days in Montana and that sales tax revenue for each individual park is not a public record. He is just guessing. Furthermore, a large number of designated campsites within Yellowstone and the surrounding communities are inaccessible to RVs. They are back country campsites for hikers and horseback riders. Even if those are only 10 percent occupied, it really doesn't help the RVer.
There is little question that there are more RVs being sold than there are RV sites being built. Congestion will get greater in the future, which bodes well for RV park owners and investors. However, until the very real barriers to entry are removed, few new parks will be built to replace parks being converted to other uses or to meet the increased demand of the public. That is pretty much indisputable.

Bob Vaughn wrote:
Why with all the RV's being built and sold and all the tv advertising to take to the open road little to nothing is being done to build more campgrounds to use them in. Especially in the south...

The one BIG reason you don't see new CG's popping up all over is all the extensive environmental laws in place.

Just about anyone can buy land, call it a CG and put in electrical shore stations.
BUT now a days getting a permit for the septic/sewage lines is almost next to impossible.

Land use that includes that many hookups for septic/sewer use are not allowed in most places. Even if it is allowed the owner still has to apply for sewage/septic permits.

Sewage/septic Permit requests are usually shot down by county building and zoning depart and the local residents when it comes time to vote on allowing the permit.

rockhillmanor wrote:

Bob Vaughn wrote:
Why with all the RV's being built and sold and all the tv advertising to take to the open road little to nothing is being done to build more campgrounds to use them in. Especially in the south...

The one BIG reason you don't see new CG's popping up all over is all the extensive environmental laws in place.

Just about anyone can buy land, call it a CG and put in electrical shore stations.
BUT now a days getting a permit for the septic/sewage lines is almost next to impossible.

Land use that includes that many hookups for septic/sewer use are not allowed in most places. Even if it is allowed the owner still has to apply for sewage/septic permits.

Sewage/septic Permit requests are usually shot down by county building and zoning depart and the local residents when it comes time to vote on allowing the permit.

Before you even get to the NIMBY crowd you have to wade through exactly what you say.......Getting Sewage Permits, that is if you can get through the general zoning requirements to begin with where the NIMBYs will come into play, a vicious circle of never ending applications, hearings, applications, etc . Most jurisdictions are not going to permit you to put in a septic system for a campground, it's going to need to be an independently owned plant, or tying into an existing municipally operated plant that may or may not have excess capacity. There are plenty of places where a single sewer tap is uber expensive, and you'll pay that tap fee X how ever many sites you intend to have.

Not only will you be dealing with the local municipality but also your state DCNR, The EPA, and most likely the Army Corp of Engineers if one drop of any discharge ends up in a waterway they administer, which is almost all of them.

I'm not worried. Most of the newbies watching the RVing shows on GAC and running out to buy an RV will discover that there's actually work involved in RVing and go back to their video games and Netflix after a couple of years.

I haven't looked for any statistics, but I wouldn't be surprised if the number of RV parks has actually declined a bit as urban sprawl has pushed up land values. I know of a couple of parks that were sold to developers in recent years, including one that's now partially the site of a Walmart that sees a few RV's in the parking lot overnight now and then. I guess there's a bit of irony in that... ;)

jplante4 wrote:
I'm not worried. Most of the newbies watching the RVing shows on GAC and running out to buy an RV will discover that there's actually work involved in RVing and go back to their video games and Netflix after a couple of years.

I agree! It may take a while, but eventually things change.
As they say....."this too, shall pass".

What I would like to see is some minimum-liability-way for private owners of land to open it up for short-stay RV drycamping at, say, $10 per night for up to 3 nights.

We need safe and quiet drycamping spots to quickly squat for a day or two within a few miles of major routes and don't really need or care for over-nighting in over-crowded $$$ FHU commercial campgrounds. We also don't care to drive miles into the countryside in the afternoon of a tiring day of travel in order to try and find a public land drycamping spot for only one night - as beautiful and inexpensive as they may be.

We even sometimes stop at commercial FHU campgrounds and ask for a spot back in a corner with no facilities and at less $$ than their regular spots.

I guess the above is what safe and legal-to-do Rest Stops could provide - if safe ones weren't so rare and if they were along more state highways instead of primarily along only the Interstates.

pnichols wrote:
What I would like to see is some minimum-liability-way for private owners of land to open it up for short-stay RV drycamping at, say, $10 per night for up to 3 nights.

We need safe and quiet drycamping spots to quickly squat for a day or two within a few miles of major routes and don't really need or care for over-nighting in over-crowded $$$ FHU commercial campgrounds. We also don't care to drive miles into the countryside in the afternoon of a tiring day of travel in order to try and find a public land drycamping spot for only one night - as beautiful and inexpensive as they may be.....

.....I guess the above is what safe and legal-to-do Rest Stops could provide - if safe ones weren't so rare and if they were along more state highways instead of primarily along only the Interstates.

Sadly here around and in the midwest area they are simply closing rest areas. When I headed out full time I was shocked that all my favorite rest areas were closed and basically I ran across the same thing heading south along the interstates.

If the rest areas are not closed you can make bet that they have closed the dump stations. wisconsin has practically closed all the dump stations.

Here is an answer to your needs and wants!

I broke down late at night, ERS got it semi repaired enough to move her off the intersate, so the state police escorted me to a place I could park for the night. I just followed them.

Low and behold it was a Fairgrounds!!
I pulled in and made my way to the back following signs and when I rounded the corner there were about 4 DP MH's one of which was a Prevost, parked with hookups at a Fairgound!!

I took a spot, hooked up, and then inquired where to pay?
I was directed to a small little shack and paid the attendant a whopping $8 bucks for the night with electric!

I have since added Fairgrounds as my first choice for CG's while traveling. Almost every little town has a local Fairgrounds.
And each state has a State Fairgrounds. They all have a CG for RV's.
They are nice and quiet with electric and sometimes water.
IMHO the best kept secret, so shhh don't tell anyone!

There is always a couple of dump stations at all fairgrounds. You just have to look for them. They are usually along side the big arenas where they show livestock. And there is no charge to use them.

Note: You do have to check and make sure their County Fair is 'not' going on. The CG area will be filled up 100% to the hilt with exhibitors no room for us RV'ers.

My favorite is the Des Moines State Fairgrounds. I had a full hook up 1,200 campsite CG 'all to myself' sitting high on top of a hill overlooking Des Moines. It was so relaxing I ended up staying there for a week!! :C



My toad enjoying the view!