Self defense while traveling

I looked up ramgunner’s FN PS90, a very cool weapon, I want one! However, based on my own economic realities I’ll have to stick with my Remington 870 and 00 buckshot. BTW back in the 80’s the Houston neighborhood I lived in was being plagued by a serial rapist. One day while I was at work he tried to get up close and personal with my late wife. According to my wife, the effect on his libido was devastating when he was faced with one PO’d woman armed with a 12 gauge. But man alive, he sure knew how to run fast!

Steve

spoon059 wrote:

Do you really want to be the next Ferguson Policeman or the next George Zimmerman? Common sense is going to protect you much more than any weapon.

I get where you are going with your argument... but neither Officer Wilson nor Mr. Zimmerman were found guilty of committing any crimes. Personally I would rather be the next Wilson or Zimmerman than the next;
Deputy Bill Myers- murdered by handgun on 09/22 after serving court papers
Deputy Dwight Maness- murdered by rifle on 09/14 after being shot responding to a domestic
Trooper Cameron Ponder- murdered by handgun on 09/13 during a traffic stop
Deputy Darren Goforth- murdered by handgun on 08/28 while pumping gas in Texas

Common sense didn't protect them... but then again neither did having a firearm or bullet resistant vest.

Its easier to find a list of officers murdered in the past month, its much harder to find a list of otherwise innocent civilians who have been murdered by gun toting criminals.

Correct. Good on correcting the erroneous conclusions drawn by the previous post.

You sound like a ballistics trained person that should realize shot gun shells come in a vast variety of shot sizes, the lower the number the bigger the pellet until you reach Ought and double Ought. Now those have big stopping power. However in defensive situation I do not care about where the small shot pellets go. I just want to save my life, I guarantee you the sound of 12 ga. pump being loaded into the breach will give you cause to get the hell out of the area.

Cummins12V98 wrote:

TechWriter wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
None of this debate would be allowed if we did not have the Second Amendment!

Sure it would -- the First Amendment guarantees freedom of speech.

Dream on!

Just because it's the "Second" amendment does not make it less important then the First!

Didn't say that -- you did.

Geocritter wrote:

suprz wrote:
I'm almost sorry I started this thread... But to get back on track, carrying a shotgun in the RV is easier than a handgun? I do agree with a previous poster that said, not many people do not recognize the sound of a shotgun shell being chambered. But on a personal note, my son is a Marine, and is proud to serve his country, but when I see the way the constitution is being abused and twisted, it makes me wonder how much will be left of the constitution for him to fight for....

Suprz,

Don’t feel bad about this thread. We’re always going to have those special people who are sooo much more evolved than us primitives that they don’t see a need to ever protect themselves or the ones that they love. ........

As far as shotguns go, I recommend the Remington 870 pump. They are relatively cheap, extremely reliable and can be obtained in a myriad of different versions from short-barreled, short-stocked, home defense models to long barreled hunting arms and everything in between. If you like to hunt or shoot clay targets you can do what I do. My 870 came with a 28” barrel for hunting and clay target shooting. For home defense I install a short “riot gun” barrel. The barrel swap only takes a minute or two and requires no tools.

So there’s your answer. A shotgun is great choice, very effective, and you won’t have as many legal hoops to jump through as you pass from state to state. Steve

X2
Amen to that!
Irregardless of one's opinion on guns....if you are 'RV'ing' and 'crossing states' a shotgun is the answer if you choose to be protected.

I'm typing fast as I don't have much time -

Keep in mind that with ANY firearm, YOU are personally responsible for EVERY projectile that comes out of it.

We could get into a discussion about defensive shootings and how projectiles work. What you see in the movies is false. The bad guy doesn't fly backwards 200 feet, or explode. Shotguns don't do that. Handguns don't do that. Shot placement is critical. Forget "stopping power".

In most shooting situations, Projectiles make holes that bleed. Enough blood loss results in Loss Of Consciousness (LOC), they pass out. Making big holes in things that bleed a lot is faster.

In the real world, the bad guy either won't realize he was shot, or he will run off once he hears shots. If he was hit, he may pass out some distance away. Without medical help, he will bleed out. Might happen anyway depending on the internal damage.

In the real world, you don't see police rush up to someone that was shot. Why?

When you pass out, you hit the ground. When you go horizontal, BP comes back up - LOC solved. That person can be a threat again. It also takes a while for BP to drop and LOC to happen. The bad guy can hurt you until he is down. There are videos of police shooting a person multiple times and he doesn't even act like he was hit. That's real world.

I wanted to get that out of the way so that we can talk about appropriate firearms.

You hear people big on shotguns. Shotguns generally fire a lot of little projectiles to take out little things (birds). They are NOT ideal for defense. Why?

Humans are not little. The holes won't be big enough to do much unless at CLOSE range, and you don't want to be that close. LOC takes time, and odds are you won't hit any CNS components that will result in a rapid down.

You are also responsible for every projectile. All of those pellets. They spread out pretty fast.

A few years ago, I was invited to a session with the Taurus Judge and many types of ammo. It was designed with carjackings in mind, and at that range it's great. Beyond from the end of the barrel to the passenger window - a couple of feet - spread means those projectiles may hit bystanders/other property.

Some say "they are less effective at distance". True, but they can still cause injury that you will pay for.

Handguns are popular because they are easily concealed, but they don't have "stopping power". They make holes that bleed. They are a tradeoff. Shot placement is critical.

.50BMG? Now you have stopping power. You can't conceal that or maneuver it in your RV to use it.

Personally, I recommend something shoulder supported that's designed to limit over-penetration yet make holes that bleed a lot AND be easily maneuverable in tight spaces. My favorite is the FN PS90. http://rvgunner.com/ps90.htm

The original post was about 4:00 pm out here on the Left Coast and there are seven pages of comments. It has always been a hot topic issue on here but there are a lot of more interesting posts on here with far fewer responses.

I have guns, I am trained in how and who to shoot and I could if threatened, but come on, how many articles about a RVer who has shot someone in relationship to nights camping? Even accepting that there are 10 times more occations where the presence of a gun has sent an intruder on his way than actual shootings, there just aren't that many.

I think the average person could with a can of Wasp and Insect Spray, would be better off. On top of everything else, if you had sufficient provocation to use a gun, and you used wasp spray, the self incrimination is not as bad and even if the bad guy sued you, he would be wearing a orange jumpsuit and most likely be laughed out of court. Besides, no holes to repair in the RV and no blood to clean up.

And do I carry, just be sure if you threaten me in my RV that you have goggles and a Kevlar vest.

To the OP, if you carry in the RV, Mossberg 500 with a pistol grip and short barrel, very scary looking.

westernrvparkowner wrote:

MrWizard wrote:
i've been robbed twice
once at knife point, my wallet and cash

once at gun point, they stole a motorcycle

the first one was never caught
the second was caught within 2 hours, a juvenile (aka under 18yrs)
and prosecuted

neither time was i in a bad neighborhood, or someplace i shouldn't have been

the first on my way to work
the second leaving my BIL auto shop, caught me stopped in the drive way checking traffic, and stuck a gun in my face

it can happen anytime anywhere to anybody
there is NO such thing, "as it only happens to somebody else, never to me"

And if you had shot the first guy dead, you never would have had a motorcycle to be stolen the second time because you would have been sued into oblivion for "wrongful death" buy the family of the first thief. On top of that, you would likely have faced criminal charges.
Shooting someone to protect your belongings is likely to result in a lifetime of problems. It is a felony in many states. The claim of self defense is an active defense, something you will have to prove. Just saying you felt your life was in danger is not enough. You will have to prove it. Do you really want to be the next Ferguson Policeman or the next George Zimmerman? Common sense is going to protect you much more than any weapon.

May I respectfully refer you to MCA 1-1-224 and 45-3-103?
IF You live in Montana, you should be well aware of Montana law!

EDIT: You might also want to get a copy of the Montana State Constitution and read Article II, Section 12.

suprz wrote:
I'm almost sorry I started this thread... But to get back on track, carrying a shotgun in the RV is easier than a handgun? I do agree with a previous poster that said, not many people do not recognize the sound of a shotgun shell being chambered. But on a personal note, my son is a Marine, and is proud to serve his country, but when I see the way the constitution is being abused and twisted, it makes me wonder how much will be left of the constitution for him to fight for....

Suprz,

Don’t feel bad about this thread. We’re always going to have those special people who are sooo much more evolved than us primitives that they don’t see a need to ever protect themselves or the ones that they love. Its okay for a police officer to risk his life defending theirs, after all the police officer doesn’t have kids and family that love, care for and rely on him, or does he? But I guess for those special people he’s not so evolved so it’s okay!

Years ago I read an interesting blog posted by an Argentinean after they’d had an economic melt-down and a partial civilization collapse. It was a very scary but eye-opening article about real life events that took place after the economic melt-down.

Among the many things he recommended was to have a shotgun for home protection. He considered a pistol relatively worthless and only recommended having one to carry for personal protection while shopping. My pistol, a Kel-Tec, has an accurate range of about 5’ (LOL). I carry it with me while quail hunting so that if my dog gets tangled up with a pack of javelinas I have an extra 7 shots to protect her with.

As far as shotguns go, I recommend the Remington 870 pump. They are relatively cheap, extremely reliable and can be obtained in a myriad of different versions from short-barreled, short-stocked, home defense models to long barreled hunting arms and everything in between. If you like to hunt or shoot clay targets you can do what I do. My 870 came with a 28” barrel for hunting and clay target shooting. For home defense I install a short “riot gun” barrel. The barrel swap only takes a minute or two and requires no tools.

So there’s your answer. A shotgun is great choice, very effective, and you won’t have as many legal hoops to jump through as you pass from state to state.

Steve

I've read some dangerous advice in this thread. I'm a firearms instructor, and I've been working on an article covering this from an RV perspective. There is a lot of bad information out there.

First - do you have a concealed firearm permit in your home state?

If you don't, then you are generally limited to having a firearm unloaded and stored where the driver can't access it when in motion. When stopped, it's your domicile. Local laws will always apply, but MOST places will allow you to defend yourself in your domicile. You do have to deal with things like certain types of firearms being illegal in certain states, magazine capacity limits, etc.

If you do have a concealed firearm permit, then you enter a world with things like RECIPROCITY and RECOGNITION. Reciprocity is when two states have a formalized agreement to admit each others permits. Recognition is the same thing, but with no formal agreement.

My Utah permit - as a Utah Resident - is accepted in many states. It means that I don't have to disarm myself before crossing a border into a state where my permit is valid.

Some states only accept a permit held by a resident of the permit state. For example, if I'm a California resident and have a Utah permit, it won't be good in Florida. I also have a Nevada permit as a Utah resident. New Mexico will honor that one, even though they don't honor my Utah permit.

When carrying in a reciprocity/recognition situation, you are subject to LOCAL laws. They may be different from your home state. It is your responsibility to know them.

There is an app for smartphones called Legal Heat. I strongly recommend getting it. It has info on the laws of all 50 states.

There is also a book on Firearms Laws of all 50 States by Mitch Vilos. Get it. It's a good resource.