Stability, hitch and tongue weight....
Concerned over handling of my combo - but I'm inexperienced as to what "good" travel trailer towing should be like. Problem: Occasional small sway (measured in a couple of inches each way, but can ...
Forum Discussion
Hi Again,
You did not state the tire size but you did the brand and the pressures.
Odds are favorable the tires you changed to at the pressures you are running them at, are part of the problem. That brand, which is a premium tire, also is in the group of tires that have the softer sidewalls.
On my prior TV, 2003 K2500 Suburban which had Steel Tex LT 245-75R16’s running 50psi front and 80 psi rear (door sticker pressures) with a Reese HP DC and a TT with 15% loaded tongue weight was rock solid. Then I changed tires.... To the Michelin LTX. The whole rig changed to have trailer instability.
I finally figured it out. It was the front tires flexing in the side walls. There was a global shift better in stability going from 50psi to 60 psi. And going to 70 psi in the front on that truck, the whole truck bounced left to right over a bump, was too much. Backed down to 65psi and stayed there until we changed trucks and campers.
I also have a very good buddy on the forum who swears by the Michelin LTX while I was swearing at them... But he had A F250 with the PSD up front and was running 70 psi in the fronts. That big PSD changed the tire weights and at 70psi he had no issues. Now he has a real nice new Dodge 2500. I'm sure he might just chime in here...:)
And I had another good friend with a F250 gasser pulling the same size camper I have now with his Hensley hitch. (I cautioned him, but he did it anyaway) He changed from the original OEM Steel Tex tires to the Michelin LTX running 50psi in the fronts and 80 in the back. All was OK till until one day he made a sharp left turn where the whole front of the truck went soggy in the middle of the intersection. We where camping together that time and I told him, air up the fronts, you can't run them that low at our truck weights. He did and the issue went away.
If you want more details, see here
Stability Effect When Changing Tires - GM 3/4 Ton Suburban
While Michelin has changed those early vintage LTX to the newer ones, the side walls are still softer then many other brands. Even in the LT E load range they are softer. I'm going through this tire issue right now on my F350 as I need new tires. I found a tire dealer to help me with the issue and he showed me to feel the new tire unmounted in the side wall by just pulling the tire at the bead and feeling it. We went into his store room and started pulling tire beads.... sure enough the LT E load Michelin 2016 vintage LTX has the softest flexing sidewall of any brand NTB has in their stockroom. In my case BFG Commerical TA's come as close to the now hard to get Continental Contrac that I am using that work well.
Point: Air up your front tires 10 psi to 65psi and take the rear tires to 80psi and try it. Change nothing else for this test. If you feel a shift in stability better, then the pressure experiment has begun. Try 70 in the front and see if the front end will not bounce hard when towing going over a bump, any bump. If you can live with 70, go to 75 and try it. You are trying to find the sweet spot of stiff enough but not too much as handling is then affected. The rear tires, they can cause this too. Once you found the front limit, take the back down to 75psi and try it. I doubt you will be able to go much lower then 65 or 70 in the back.
Just because you have LT E load range, the tire stiffness comes with pressure in that brand of tire. Odds are high you do not need the pressure for the weight, but do for the stiffness.
If you find the sweet spot, you may end up airing down for none towing and back up for towing as running empty it might be a bucking bronco.
As to the ProPride/Hensley, yes it will eliminate the sway issue as those hitches use a totally different concept of pivot point projection to help reduce the rear overhang effect of the truck. Changing the hitch due to lower tongue weights of your floor plan, is a reason. That said, going from 11% to 13% loaded TW I do not believe will change the issue you have. Even if you change to the ProPride/Hensley, odds still exist you are going to need to air up the tires.
Try as you can to figure out the exact issue creating the problem and then change that if you can or at least adjust it to optium. I'm assuming you really do not want to spend another $1000 on new tires, but that is a good ways into the ProPride/Hensley.
Let us know your outcome.
Hope this helps
John
PS. Ideally get scaled weights to confirm the TW's before you start buying new parts to fix this.
You did not state the tire size but you did the brand and the pressures.
Flapper wrote:
Just replaced the OEM Goodrich tires (worn out) with Michelin Defender LTX's. Running 55 lb front, 60 back.
OEM Westlake tires on the trailer - running 80 lbs.
Nearest scale is a long ways away, so I literally weighed everything added to the camper, including full propane and battery. Total "stuff" came in at 775 lbs +/- 20. Added that to the "as shipped" weight, plus the 15 gal of water I added. Used the beam and scale method for finding the 805 tongue weight from that base. Estimated the higher tongue weight, because the water tank is at halfway between tongue and trailer wheels, so assumed half the weight of the 30 gal added water went on the tongue.
Flapper wrote:
Well, I'm leaning toward the problem being still too light on the tongue. Of our stuff, 360 lbs is in the trailer, and 415 is in the front pass through or on the very front (battery, propane), so not much to move around. With the Andersen tightened as much as I can get it, fender rise is still within Ford spec (they don't mention actual measured weight transfer), with full water. but, any more weight added and for sure the Andersen will not be able to transfer.
ProPride/Hensley users - is the hitch a solution for this situation, where the trailer is a bit light on the tongue?
Odds are favorable the tires you changed to at the pressures you are running them at, are part of the problem. That brand, which is a premium tire, also is in the group of tires that have the softer sidewalls.
On my prior TV, 2003 K2500 Suburban which had Steel Tex LT 245-75R16’s running 50psi front and 80 psi rear (door sticker pressures) with a Reese HP DC and a TT with 15% loaded tongue weight was rock solid. Then I changed tires.... To the Michelin LTX. The whole rig changed to have trailer instability.
I finally figured it out. It was the front tires flexing in the side walls. There was a global shift better in stability going from 50psi to 60 psi. And going to 70 psi in the front on that truck, the whole truck bounced left to right over a bump, was too much. Backed down to 65psi and stayed there until we changed trucks and campers.
I also have a very good buddy on the forum who swears by the Michelin LTX while I was swearing at them... But he had A F250 with the PSD up front and was running 70 psi in the fronts. That big PSD changed the tire weights and at 70psi he had no issues. Now he has a real nice new Dodge 2500. I'm sure he might just chime in here...:)
And I had another good friend with a F250 gasser pulling the same size camper I have now with his Hensley hitch. (I cautioned him, but he did it anyaway) He changed from the original OEM Steel Tex tires to the Michelin LTX running 50psi in the fronts and 80 in the back. All was OK till until one day he made a sharp left turn where the whole front of the truck went soggy in the middle of the intersection. We where camping together that time and I told him, air up the fronts, you can't run them that low at our truck weights. He did and the issue went away.
If you want more details, see here
Stability Effect When Changing Tires - GM 3/4 Ton Suburban
While Michelin has changed those early vintage LTX to the newer ones, the side walls are still softer then many other brands. Even in the LT E load range they are softer. I'm going through this tire issue right now on my F350 as I need new tires. I found a tire dealer to help me with the issue and he showed me to feel the new tire unmounted in the side wall by just pulling the tire at the bead and feeling it. We went into his store room and started pulling tire beads.... sure enough the LT E load Michelin 2016 vintage LTX has the softest flexing sidewall of any brand NTB has in their stockroom. In my case BFG Commerical TA's come as close to the now hard to get Continental Contrac that I am using that work well.
Point: Air up your front tires 10 psi to 65psi and take the rear tires to 80psi and try it. Change nothing else for this test. If you feel a shift in stability better, then the pressure experiment has begun. Try 70 in the front and see if the front end will not bounce hard when towing going over a bump, any bump. If you can live with 70, go to 75 and try it. You are trying to find the sweet spot of stiff enough but not too much as handling is then affected. The rear tires, they can cause this too. Once you found the front limit, take the back down to 75psi and try it. I doubt you will be able to go much lower then 65 or 70 in the back.
Just because you have LT E load range, the tire stiffness comes with pressure in that brand of tire. Odds are high you do not need the pressure for the weight, but do for the stiffness.
If you find the sweet spot, you may end up airing down for none towing and back up for towing as running empty it might be a bucking bronco.
As to the ProPride/Hensley, yes it will eliminate the sway issue as those hitches use a totally different concept of pivot point projection to help reduce the rear overhang effect of the truck. Changing the hitch due to lower tongue weights of your floor plan, is a reason. That said, going from 11% to 13% loaded TW I do not believe will change the issue you have. Even if you change to the ProPride/Hensley, odds still exist you are going to need to air up the tires.
Try as you can to figure out the exact issue creating the problem and then change that if you can or at least adjust it to optium. I'm assuming you really do not want to spend another $1000 on new tires, but that is a good ways into the ProPride/Hensley.
Let us know your outcome.
Hope this helps
John
PS. Ideally get scaled weights to confirm the TW's before you start buying new parts to fix this.
