Forum Discussion
Lynnmor wrote:
The US is the unquestioned leader in technology. It is now the largest producer of oil, thanks to our shale oil reserves and the new methods of extraction developed in the US. The US is ranks 2nd to China in manufacturing (3rd if you consider the entire European Union as one entity, and with Brexit the US would be an undisputed 2nd). The US is a leading producer of agricultural products and is the world's largest exporter of agricultural products by a large margin.westernrvparkowner wrote:
Millions of pensioners are retired autoworkers, steelworkers, teachers and the like. Others are first responders who create a safe environment for society. Are you going to argue that a paramedic who saves the life of one of those people who "use their own two hands to make things" didn't contribute to the wealth you claim only they can create? You are just going to dismiss the education that handworker received that allowed them to learn their craft as not valuable?
The point is that we would not have the luxury of all those services unless people create wealth. Passing money back and forth between each other has no net gain, someone actually needs to produce something. This thread started about tariffs which are used to protect the wealth creators in this country. You can argue about how well they might work, but one thing for sure is offshoring production will dump our wealth into another country. Those that receive their income from sources such as taxes have a better lifestyle by buying cheaper worldwide and those that are/were in the production of goods in this country, not so much.
I would also argue that services contribute to the wealth of a nation. For example, the US is the top destination for foreign tourist visitations. Those visits produce no products, but unquestionably add to the economy (an estimated $250 Billion in 2017, accounting for nearly 3% of our total GDP) On a personal note, I think I provide more "wealth" to the US by providing a quality recreation experience than I would if I converted my park to a factory that built plastic bobblehead toys to be sold in a Dollar Store. Surely a doctor contributes more to the wealth of this nation than he would if he was relegated to hand painting cheap plastic Christmas ornaments. To imply that anyone who is not directly involved in manufacturing is somehow no valuable to the economy is mistaken.westernrvparkowner wrote:
Millions of pensioners are retired autoworkers, steelworkers, teachers and the like. Others are first responders who create a safe environment for society. Are you going to argue that a paramedic who saves the life of one of those people who "use their own two hands to make things" didn't contribute to the wealth you claim only they can create? You are just going to dismiss the education that handworker received that allowed them to learn their craft as not valuable?
The point is that we would not have the luxury of all those services unless people create wealth. Passing money back and forth between each other has no net gain, someone actually needs to produce something. This thread started about tariffs which are used to protect the wealth creators in this country. You can argue about how well they might work, but one thing for sure is offshoring production will dump our wealth into another country. Those that receive their income from sources such as taxes have a better lifestyle by buying cheaper worldwide and those that are/were in the production of goods in this country, not so much.- " the USA has been the whipping boy of the world long enough. the goal should be free trade across all borders...let the best product win."
YUP just add FAIR TRADE instead of free trade. Lynnmor wrote:
Millions of pensioners are retired autoworkers, steelworkers, teachers and the like. Others are first responders who create a safe environment for society. Are you going to argue that a paramedic who saves the life of one of those people who "use their own two hands to make things" didn't contribute to the wealth you claim only they can create? You are just going to dismiss the education that handworker received that allowed them to learn their craft as not valuable?troubledwaters wrote:
Lynnmor wrote:
What is "incomes that come from the creation of wealth"?
Seems like the majority on this forum have some kind of govt income beyond the mandatory Social Security and Medicare. Those that don't have incomes that come from the creation of wealth would be opposed to tariffs that reduce their guaranteed income buying power.
What is "guaranteed income buying power"?
:h
Did you know that there are a few people that actually use their own two hands to make things, thus creating wealth?
Do you know people that get a pension, never created wealth and may only care about their own purchasing power regardless where that wealth was created?
We may very well joke about the value of the contribution of professions like lawyers, DMV employees and so on, but they are actually a necessary part of any economy. I would venture to say that virtually anyone who is or was employed has contributed to the wealth of the country. You don't have to personally build widgets to be a contributor.tomman58 wrote:
As people get older, they accumulate more wealth. What did you expect to happen. A person in their 20s are just beginning their career and their earnings. They will have a need to accumulate many rapidly depreciating items. They have to get a car, they have to buy furniture, they are funding their education.
Stats are stats:
Americans in their 20s: $16,000
Americans in their 30s: $45,000
Americans in their 40s: $63,000
Americans in their 50s: $117,000
Americans in their 60s: $172,000
I don't care what you did or are doing these numbers represent America and they suck add to it the game of tariffs and other economic nightmares and younger types are pretty much screwed as a whole.
A person in their 60s has a lifetime of earnings a part of which should have gone towards retirement savings. At a certain point in time they will begin to use that savings as part of their retirement spending. Other than the fact that the vast majority of those in their 50s and 60s probably wish they had paid more attention to retirement savings, your stats are exactly what one should expect in a functioning economy.troubledwaters wrote:
Lynnmor wrote:
What is "incomes that come from the creation of wealth"?
Seems like the majority on this forum have some kind of govt income beyond the mandatory Social Security and Medicare. Those that don't have incomes that come from the creation of wealth would be opposed to tariffs that reduce their guaranteed income buying power.
What is "guaranteed income buying power"?
:h
Did you know that there are a few people that actually use their own two hands to make things, thus creating wealth?
Do you know people that get a pension, never created wealth and may only care about their own purchasing power regardless where that wealth was created?rk911 wrote:
absolutely. grasshoppers or ants.
Having been both, my years as a drone did more for my retirement than my hard work in the private sector. I did okay, but find this to be a sad situation. I used to buy a new Cadillac every year. For my boss.troubledwaters wrote:
tomman58 wrote:
People young and old alike get to make their own choices in life. They can choose to save for retirement or choose to spend their money on whatever they want. So if they have to work until they die then I guess they learn their lesson the hard way. Their Choice, Their Life.
Stats are stats:
Americans in their 20s: $16,000
Americans in their 30s: $45,000
Americans in their 40s: $63,000
Americans in their 50s: $117,000
Americans in their 60s: $172,000
I don't care what you did or are doing these numbers represent America and they suck add to it the game of tariffs and other economic nightmares and younger types are pretty much screwed as a whole.
absolutely. grasshoppers or ants.Lynnmor wrote:
TomG2 wrote:
That is the secret ingredient. If we all could get govt jobs with govt pensions, we could all buy RV's.
Seems like the majority on this forum have some kind of govt income beyond the mandatory Social Security and Medicare. Those that don't have incomes that come from the creation of wealth would be opposed to tariffs that reduce their guaranteed income buying power.
wait a sec. you're saying that those who receive a govt pension should be opposed to the tariffs? if that's the case I'm one who receives a very modest govt pension who is also in favor of the tariffs. the USA has been the whipping boy of the world long enough. the goal should be free trade across all borders...let the best product win.aftermath wrote:
Americans are a very interesting and quite complicated group. We wave the flag and chant, Buy American, but we turn out by the millions to support stores like Walmart who import the majority of their products from other nations, China being one of them. We are driven by low costs and will do anything to save a buck but, many of us will support the tariffs because somehow, magically, it will drive these wicked countries to their knees. At the same time the tariffs will increase costs to the consumers.
Keep in mind that a tariff is a self imposed tax on the consumer. How much will a 25% tariff cost you. The debate goes on and you have heard some of that here. I am not an economist but to say that a 25% tariff will only raise costs 2.5% is a bit of a stretch in my mind. The extent of this impact is yet to be felt because of available inventory but when that is gone, the new costs for the new goods will start to rise. The question is how much are you willing to pay?
Take a look at the soy bean farmers. A huge tariff placed by our country has dramatically hurt these people. The answer was for our government to come up with something like $12 billion for a bailout. A self imposed tax that will hurt all of us, farmers and tax payers alike.
well said, it is a complex problem, no clear cut right or wrong. trickle down effect everywhere
