There should be a law

CatchinBluegill wrote:

No, it isn't, and for reasons beyond sniffing traffic. Networking and security are my profession, and I don't connect my computer, or even my phone, to public wifi. Ever.

That said, if you really want to use the campground's public wifi, the safest way to do that is to have a wireless router capable of bridging wireless networks (that is, it's uplink will be the CG's wireless, and it broadcasts its own, secure SSID for your wireless network). I don't, off the top of my head, know of any consumer-grade wireless router that does this. I reflashed mine with DD-WRT for that particular purpose.

Using a mifi-type setup is more expensive, but it's easier (for most people) and safer than setting up a router to do wireless-wireless bridging. It's likely to be safer, and may well be faster. As many have reported, speeds on camp ground wifi are often awful (I'll comment on that in another post).

If you're going to use public wifi anyway, the best thing to do then is:

- Always make sure your computer is up to date on patches (especially security patches)
- Make sure your software firewall doesn't allow any external computers to initiate connections. You computer should not appear to be listening on any TCP or UDP ports. You can google this (it'll be specific to the OS you're using; Windows is different than Mac is different than Linux)
- Subscribe to a paid VPN service (don't use a free one; they have to make money somewhere, and they're probably making it by selling ads, selling your information, or in some cases, selling access to your bandwidth and routing other people's traffic out through your computer. That can be pretty dodgy traffic, too. Connect to the VPN as soon as you're on the CG Wifi and send all your traffic out through the VPN.

Agreed with a few caveats. There are several companies that offer wireless routers that are used for SSID creation and allow multiple connections that are hidden behind that SSID; I use Jefatech for my wireless connections at any park.

I concur, that a paid VPN service is a nice addition, however, for most folks it is overkill for the few transactions that need to be done. Most of us (I do use a VPN - Hotspot Sheild) are not connected for long periods of time doing MBs of business that needs to be that secure. As long as your connection is initiated to a trusted HTTPS portal; i.e., you go directly to HTTPS://www.mybank.com to log in and not to http://www.mybank.com, do your business and get off that site as soon as said business is done, you are about as secure as you can get. SSL connections are very secure and provided your firewall is up to snuff you shouldn't be any more "exposed" on a public wifi as on your home wifi.

Prudence and common sense play a large role in your security. Don't disable your firewall (no matter whether it is the OS version or part of a paid antivirus package, do limit your connection time (most secure sites will actually kick you off after a period of inactivity to limit your exposure), try to rotate free public wifi sites (if you use McDonald's today, try and use a library next time; don't establish a pattern that someone can detect), use a VPN service (paid) if you are in one spot for a long time (more than a week or so) to mask your physical location and if you can afford it, use a Jeffa Tech (or other brand) wireless wifi repeater so that you can hide behind an SSID that uses passwords (and make it a good one) as one more layer of protection.

CatchinBluegill wrote:
Networking and security are my profession, and I don't connect my computer, or even my phone, to public wifi. Ever.

Have you, or known anyone, to be hacked on public wifi?

2gypsies wrote:

toedtoes wrote:
If Rv parks can't get reliable WiFi (through no fault of their own), then they should stop advertising it as a benefit of their park.

When they advertise something as a benefit, then it should be available - period. If it isn't available at a reasonable minimum level, then they shouldn't be advertising it.

I think that's what we're all trying to clear up.

No RV park is going to advertise Wifi if they don't have it.

O.K. - so we've established that they have it. Perhaps it's not fast enough for some users and that could be because of many reasons - being out in the country, the major cost for smaller parks, abusing the usage by some who use it for games and streaming, etc.

The fact is, they have it. This is not mis-advertising.

You've got to admit that internet users nowadays use it quite differently than from a few years ago. Users expect immediate, fast response like they have at home. If you want that kind of response in a campground with hundreds using it, then you might consider using your own means.

I don't see an issue here. We supplied our own by using Verizon's Jetpack. It was secure, fast and available many times even in the boonies where you'd least expect it. Basically, if we received a telephone signal we could use the internet.

My expectation with "free wifi" is that I should be able to check my email at any point during my stay. I do not expect to be able to stream movies, I do not expect to have to wake up at 3 a.m. to check my email. I think most people would expect a similar minimum standard - to be able to check email at any point in time during the stay. If the park can't provide that minimum standard, then they should NOT be advertising "free wifi" as a benefit.

I also see no problem with folks providing their own wifi, but that doesn't excuse a park from not providing what they are advertising. If they can't provide something reliably, then they shouldn't be advertising that they can.

toedtoes wrote:
If Rv parks can't get reliable WiFi (through no fault of their own), then they should stop advertising it as a benefit of their park.

When they advertise something as a benefit, then it should be available - period. If it isn't available at a reasonable minimum level, then they shouldn't be advertising it.

I think that's what we're all trying to clear up.

No RV park is going to advertise Wifi if they don't have it.

O.K. - so we've established that they have it. Perhaps it's not fast enough for some users and that could be because of many reasons - being out in the country, the major cost for smaller parks, abusing the usage by some who use it for games and streaming, etc.

The fact is, they have it. This is not mis-advertising.

You've got to admit that internet users nowadays use it quite differently than from a few years ago. Users expect immediate, fast response like they have at home. If you want that kind of response in a campground with hundreds using it, then you might consider using your own means.

I don't see an issue here. We supplied our own by using Verizon's Jetpack. It was secure, fast and available many times even in the boonies where you'd least expect it. Basically, if we received a telephone signal we could use the internet.

If Rv parks can't get reliable WiFi (through no fault of their own), then they should stop advertising it as a benefit of their park.

When they advertise something as a benefit, then it should be available - period. If it isn't available at a reasonable minimum level, then they shouldn't be advertising it.

hotpepperkid wrote:
There should be a law about an RV park advertising free Wi-Fi and when you get there and have to depend on it to do your banking, email, look for the next place to go or do some on line shopping. It is either so slow its useless or it disconnect you in the middle of what your doing and you have to start over. I don't mind paying for reliable internet. I have tried the Mi-Fi thing which works but is very expensive for not much band width.

A lot of good info in this thread, and I posted some WRT security myself, which was kind of a digression, so I'll answer your original question directly.

"A law" would probably be an awful idea, but rather than go into that, I'll explain why CG Wifi is usually so bad.

Any of you who live in a rural area know that it can be difficult to get decent Internet speeds. Cable is usually not available, and if you can get DSL, you're usually at the end of a _long_ run of wire from what is called in the business a telco CO (central office; a building where the telephone switching equipment is located, and to which your land line runs. The DLS head-end equipment - called a DSLAM - is located there, too). A long run of wire means low speed. DSL is distance-sensitive, and the farther you are from the DSLAM in the CO, the less speed you get. Telcos in cities deal with this by putting head-end equipment in neighborhoods and linking those back to the CO with a fast fiberoptic link, which is not distance-sensitive. You only have wires from your house to the local equipment, and everything gets backhauled over fiber to the CO from there.

You don't find that stuff in rural areas; it's too costly. What you do find is lots of long runs of (usually old) twisted pair. My manager lives in a rural area, and like me, he's a full-time remote worker. He had not one, but two, DSL lines, so that he could probably count on one of them working :p It was so bad that he eventually gave up and switched to a satellite Internet provider. He kept a DSL line as a backup to the satellite in case of an outage (hasn't needed it yet) but the DSL was just too slow and unreliable and it was affecting his ability to do his job.

Campgrounds, of course, tend to be in rural areas, which means they probably have that kind of DSL for a Internet connection. It's slow. It may be flaky. Even if they have multiple DSL lines, the aggregate bandwidth isn't going to be all that much. They may have hundreds of people all trying to use that bandwidth at certain times, means it's going to be practically useless for anything but email, and even that may be slow. To bring in enough lines to be fast at peak times, if it's even possible, would mean having to raise their prices and/or charge a lot for Wifi. If they have satellite Internet, it's going to be more reliable than DSL, but it's not going to be a speed-burner, either. Your home cable Internet is probably faster. Your home DSL is probably faster. If you have fiber at home, it's _much_ faster.

Then, of course, there's the Wifi network itself. It may or may not have been set up by professionals. There's plenty that can go wrong there, too. Quality, outdoor Wifi equipment and people who know how to set up a network properly are both expensive, and many camp ground operators may not be able to afford that.

The bottom line, then, is we should go out expecting less-than-great Internet at campgrounds. In many cases, it's just unavoidable. The nature of the beast.

Yes, I think it would be fair for people to let you know at check-in (or maybe even at reservation) if they have Wifi or Internet problems, but not many will do that (in my experience, it's happened once). So, it behooves us to ask about it when we make a reservation or at check-in time, if that's going to be important. For me, it doesn't matter that much. I want my kids to get off the Internet and experience Outside :-)

After all, when I camped and RVed with my parents when I was a kid, we didn't even have the Internet. Walked uphill both ways to school. In 10 feet of snow. With no shoes. And liked it ;-) I'm sure the experience would have been less good if I'd had my face buried in a computer all the time (and I was a computer geek, even back in the seventies).

2oldman wrote:

dyb wrote:
Is public wifi safe for banking ?

I've done that on occasion, but I don't make a habit of it.

It's a question of odds. What are the odds you will be unlucky enough to have someone sniffing your activities in a campground? In reality, almost too small to measure. Everyone warns not to do it, but that still doesn't mean it IS statistically unsafe.

No, it isn't, and for reasons beyond sniffing traffic. Networking and security are my profession, and I don't connect my computer, or even my phone, to public wifi. Ever.

That said, if you really want to use the campground's public wifi, the safest way to do that is to have a wireless router capable of bridging wireless networks (that is, it's uplink will be the CG's wireless, and it broadcasts its own, secure SSID for your wireless network). I don't, off the top of my head, know of any consumer-grade wireless router that does this. I reflashed mine with DD-WRT for that particular purpose.

Using a mifi-type setup is more expensive, but it's easier (for most people) and safer than setting up a router to do wireless-wireless bridging. It's likely to be safer, and may well be faster. As many have reported, speeds on camp ground wifi are often awful (I'll comment on that in another post).

If you're going to use public wifi anyway, the best thing to do then is:

- Always make sure your computer is up to date on patches (especially security patches)
- Make sure your software firewall doesn't allow any external computers to initiate connections. You computer should not appear to be listening on any TCP or UDP ports. You can google this (it'll be specific to the OS you're using; Windows is different than Mac is different than Linux)
- Subscribe to a paid VPN service (don't use a free one; they have to make money somewhere, and they're probably making it by selling ads, selling your information, or in some cases, selling access to your bandwidth and routing other people's traffic out through your computer. That can be pretty dodgy traffic, too. Connect to the VPN as soon as you're on the CG Wifi and send all your traffic out through the VPN.

westernrvparkowner wrote:


You will get your wifi connection from your cellular carrier almost exclusively.

Thankfully, it is just around the corner, because it will be a great day when I can trash my thousands of dollars of wifi equipment.

I agree this may be the future. we are doing that now at home. Cancelled out internet at our apt and just got large phone pkg that we use at main residence and at the RV park for 5 months in summer. Expensive but it works out.

Speaking of equipment, the RV park owner invested thousands in sat internet equipment, bill to be shared by about 6-8 seasonal residents who wanted it. I tried for 1 year but once the password got out to families of the users, it hit the crawl speed early in the morning. Then the sat company made the equipment basically obsolete. He can now only use it for a few MB at less than dial up speeds. I know he wishes had never went down the "wifi" road.

DutchmenSport wrote:
Amazing how this thread diverged from the OP original question?

.... if advertised... should it be available and working? ....????

If you care to define those terms, maybe you could get an answer. Does available mean available on the park, available everywhere in the park, or available inside your aluminum skinned cocoon that blocks 98% of the wifi signal while using you underpowered I-phone as the connection device? Do you define working as able to use email and surf the web or do you need to be able to conduct HD Video conferencing simultaneously with 10 other guests on the park property in order to consider it "working"?

fj12ryder wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:
I figure five years, max, and I can get out of the wifi business completely. Wifi will go the way of the pay phone and the landline.
snip

Don't bet the farm on that one. :) Wireless communication is here to stay, one way or another.

Off course wireless communication will exist. You will get your wifi connection from your cellular carrier almost exclusively. There will be no need to have a intermediary providers like coffee shops and RV parks. Just like telephone service on the road. Everyone uses a cell phone. The pay phone and public phone are gone. When was the last time you saw a phone booth on a city street? The only loser was Superman, he lost his changing room.
And yes, the financial cost for wifi will be borne by the user, just it is for phones. Now you have a $100 a month cellular bill instead of the ability to drop a quarter into a pay phone. Thankfully, it is just around the corner, because it will be a great day when I can trash my thousands of dollars of wifi equipment.