Towing Numbers

PS....my Sub's GVWR is 8,600 (see image of my door label) and if you take the
published 'curb' and subtract it from the GVWR....8,600 - 5,250 = 3,350 pounds
of 'payload' or 'cargo capacity', etc

Does anyone truly think my Sub has a 'pay load' of +3K pounds?

Some do for their TV because they don't understand what 'curb' is or
derived from...nor how the ratings system works...nor that the OEM has
no choice but to use the 'curb' as the basis for all published ratings

Assume they really don't mind 'having to do it that way' because they
then can claim these out of context ratings (payload, cargo capacity,
MTWR, etc)




Again, decide if one believes in the ratings system or not...then
do whatever if not and if yes, then learn how it works and weigh
your setup

There is a guy I've blocked who continually advises to go way over
ratings...well...read this forum without logging in, so any blocked
members posts will show up...LOL when read that he was 'humbled'
by a 'half ton' passing him going up an incline...my guess is that since
he over loads all the time...he has worn out his TV so that it can't
keep up with a 'half ton'....

:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B
:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B
:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B:B

Here is the image again in hopes to show how the systems works

If the TV is loaded to it's GVWR (should include the hitch system and tongue
or PIN if fiver) and subtract that from the GCWR...that will show what it truly
RATED to tow, which will NOT be that TV's published MTWR...proving that they used
a 'curb' or 'stripper' model to derive the published MTWR

Have walked many via PM through this and 100% of them were surprised that they
did not understand 'curb'...after they weighed their TV...they were many hundreds
to over a thousand pounds over 'their' listed 'curb'

At the bottom is an image of my latest Calif SMOG test for my 1996 Suburban.
'Curb' is listed off the Calif DMV DB, which is loaded from OEM provided info
for the thousands of models sold in Calif for 'that' year.

Note that it lists 5,250 pound 'test weight', which is the OEM's listed 'curb'
for my VIN....well at the local garden scales (it has a county certification
sticker saying tested and passed...mandated as it is used for commerce...they
weight and charge for whatever they are selling by weight). Was many years ago,
but IIRC it was 7,260 or there abouts. A far cry from 5,250...literally 2K more
and only me (180), toolbox (+250) and misc (+50). 7 empty seat belts and no
other cargo that I some times carry.

Again..always say to decide if you believe in the ratings or not.

It not, then do whatever...but know that the OEM may deny warranty if they find
out (one would have to lie..aka fraud) and if still have warranty...biggie is
that even if out of warranty...they no longer are on the hook for liability

If yes, then learn how it works and follow it by going out to weigh your setup
axle by axle both empty and fully loaded ready to go.


howmuchcanitow

rayford118 wrote:
Can someone give me all the pertinent numbers and definitions when trying to see what range of trailers i can tow. Can remember all the acronyms (gawr and others) and need to figure out how much my OEM tires can handle as well. Thanks for the help

Here's my take on it. I'm one that believes you should stay within all of the published ratings for a vehicle.

What Can I Tow?

There are exceptions to this, obviously. But for someone who is just starting out - I think it's fairly sound.

Barney,

All Bens answer says, it gvwr plus trailer wt needs to equal gcwr. If the truck is at gvwr, I can still subtract it from gcwr, and have the amount I can tow. Now if the trailer will tow say with a wagon setup, no hitch wt, I could tow that amount. But if one assumes the trailer wt needs to include a given amount of hw above and beyond the formula Ben is using, it will not work. You need to use 1.1 up to 1.25 times the difference, along with having free payload to handle the hitch wt for the tow rig to handle the trailer.

marty

blt2ski wrote:
Snip...

Even Bens answer, if someone really wanted to, one can blow holes in his description also! If one has a rig at GVWR, per Ben, you can subtract the gvwr from the gcwr, and still tow that amount, granted you have no HW, which will cause for an unstable tow! in fact probably unsafe.......

Snip...

How does that "blow holes" in Bens answer? If the facts are as you describe, then his answer still applies perfectly. If you have no room for hitch weight then you obviously cannot tow a trailer. Seems to me that Bens answer fits your hypothetical situation exactly. :)
Barney

fla-gypsy wrote:
BenK gave you the answer, but as you can see some folks have their own ideas

So what does one do when a manufacture ONLY gives you the max trailer rating, and does NOT give you a gcwr. My Wifes ML 320 is this way. MB gives ALL the first versions a 5K trailer rating. With fine print in the owners manual, to get the BIGGEST motor for BEST performance towing. THey have the same statement in the newest ones, but the rating is 7500 from the 3.5LV6 the diesel, or the 5.5L supercharged v8 with double the HP and torque of the smallest V6 in the rig.

Even Bens answer, if someone really wanted to, one can blow holes in his description also! If one has a rig at GVWR, per Ben, you can subtract the gvwr from the gcwr, and still tow that amount, granted you have no HW, which will cause for an unstable tow! in fact probably unsafe.......

Then one thing he says one needs to look at, paraphrasing, is one has to look at ALL the numbers together! to use ONLY one per say, will get you in trouble. Then if one uses the new SAE spec, max grade in first gear tested to is 12%. If you need to go up a 30% grade, yeah on the steep side, but I know where a few driveways, and side streets are, if you are a contractor like me, that has to follow the manufacture gcwr, you will not get your equipment to the job site if you stall out on that 30% grade. Hence why MDT and HDT trucks have individual gcwr's based on the end user of that truck! Some trucks have drive trains ONLY ment to mover the gvwr down the road, others are setup to move 80K on freeway grades with a max gradability of 15%, meanwhile a dumptruck or cement truck, will have gradiblities to 80%, and can only move an 80K load at 45 up a 3% grade, The otr rig will move said 80K rig up the 3% grade at 55-60 mph! IE it will have more hp and gearing to move the load on a freeway. THe dump truck is setup for more slow speed with occasional freeway useage.

More than one way to skin a cat!

Marty

Try this site http://www.fifthwheelst.com/ (Sorry, I can't make the clicky link work for some reason)

Try this site http://www.fifthwheelst.com/ (Sorry, I can't make the clicky link work for some reason)

BenK gave you the answer, but as you can see some folks have their own ideas

81 gmc C2500 with a 292 I6 and 4.10 gears, gcwr is 8500 lbs, gvwr is 8600 lbs. You could put the same drive train in a c60 with a 20K gvwr!

Sorry to blow this, but it is true!

If you were to take my IHC with an IDI 7.3 and its 18K gvwr, compare it to a similar equipe F250/350 of the same years, max gcwr is 14-15K lbs. So motors that are rated to one thing per say in a given rig, can have higher ratings in another rig. That make NO sense at all!

Marty