Yet Another Tow Capacity Question

blt2ski wrote:
Then there was a time when a 3/4 ton would literally be rated to carry 1500lbs! So with 1700 left for cargo after people etc, doing pretty good!

Hmmm....One ton = 2000 lbs. So, 2000 * 3/4 = 1500 lbs. What a coincidence!

Toy haulers are somewhat unique in that they tend to have lighter pin weights when loaded, because the garage is usually behind the trailer axles. So loading heavy toys in the garage can significantly reduce pin weight. Be sure to take that loading into account when calculating pin weights.

My Dad had a nice 2000 Dodge Ram 2500 with the diesel in it and it towed his 30', #8000 GVWR TT pretty good...

Around 2004 he found out about 5th wheels and picked out a nice #12700 GVWR 5ver, but it had a #2500 DRY pin weight..

He was going to go with the 2500, but I mentioned how Mom likes to pack the "house" in her RV's, and that you'll be looking at over #3000 pin weight easy and I mentioned "dually" and the next thing I know, he's spending my inheritance on a brand new Dodge Dually! :)

Anyway, he still has both rigs and drives the dually as a 'daily driver' as does Mom when she has to..

A 2500 series truck is nice, but not a whole lot of 'payload' with the oil burner under the hood..

Mitch

Then there was a time when a 3/4 ton would literally be rated to carry 1500lbs! So with 1700 left for cargo after people etc, doing pretty good!

Assuming you do have 1700 lbs left, that leaves you with a max trailer at 17K with 10% HW, or a whopping 6800 with 25%!!!!! so reality is, a ball mount with 10-15% will net you more trailer with a given payload amount to work with. ALong with GCWR is NOT a recognized number to worry about if pulled over by an LEO. FOr that matter, that GVWR is not usually the number they worry about either.......

If you are in Wa st, the LEO/CVEO's for the WSP do not recognize the door sticker as the max gvwr either, it is your PAID for registration. So for my dually it is 14K not the 11400 door sticker, nor the sum of the axels which is about 13300. If I really wanted to push there limits, I could go down the road at some 32K lbs, not that I will recommend this! We are talking total on my two axels, not including a trailer, for that, I could get upwards of 80K lbs before having issues, assuming again, I had an 80K paid for license plate(s)!

Marty

Thanks JIMNLIN and Others for the great info. I have run all the numbers and find that the pin weight of just about any 5th wheel toy hauler is too great for this truck. At least the models that we are gravitating to. My girl wants the garage and most of the local haulers I've looked at with a garage exceed 30 ft and the weights go up into 10,500 to 11, 500 dry. Pin weight is the deciding factor. With my Superglide Pullrite hitch and a load of wood, full tank and the two of us and we're left with approx. 1,700 left for cargo.

Still hard to believe that a 3/4 ton diesel can be so weak. Thanks again gents.

jimsryker wrote:
Wow, more good info here Jimnlin! I have to admit something here. This RAWR is a new term to me. What is this and how do I find my value on this. I don't recall seeing this in my manual.

RAWR = rear axle weight rating. Its on every trucks door post certification placard as required by law. The trucks FAWR (front axle weight rating) is also on the certification placard.

Your from California so I'll post what your legal restrictions are per this snipped (its long) email from a RV.net member asking this question;

'" Q: “Many of the owners travel over their tow vehicle GVWR and /or
GCWR. Are there any state laws against this? Or does the owner just
take the risk if they wish?”

A: The California Vehicle Code (CVC) does not contain a law that
specifically limits the amount of weight a vehicle may tow based on the
towing vehicle GVWR or GCWR. There are, however, laws that limit the
amount a vehicle may tow based on other criteria."

"Section 1085(d) of Title 13 California Code of Regulations prohibits
the loading of tires above the maximum load rating marked on the tire,
or if unmarked the maximum load rating as specified in the applicable
Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard, or in a publication furnished to
the public by the tire manufacturer. This would most likely happen in
the case of a pickup truck towing a large fifth wheel travel trailer, as
those types of trailers tend to transfer a larger portion of their
weight to the last axle of the towing unit causing that axle to exceed
the tire load limits."

I trust this has adequately answered your questions. Should you desire
any further information, please contact Officer Ron Leimer, of my staff,
at (916) 445-1865.
Sincerely,
S. B. DOWLING, Captain
Commander
Commercial Vehicle Section"

jimsryker wrote:


Wow, more good info here Jimnlin! I have to admit something here. This RAWR is a new term to me. What is this and how do I find my value on this. I don't recall seeing this in my manual. I upgraded to new Michelin E rated tires. 9" wide and approx. 3400 lbs. each. I have heard my 2500 is a 3500 less a leaf spring. Same power plant, etc... It's for this reason that I have posted this. The dealers all say that they sell these Voltages all day to 3/4 ton diesel truck owners but you have to do your homework before taking them at their word. I am hoping more with experience chime in here. Thanks!

Loading to the GAWR number WILL exceed your truck's payload rating by a significant margin.
Depends on what number you want to believe and how much cushion you believe the engineers figured into those numbers.
Loading to GAWR instead of GVWR will probably result in an unstable feeling rig, I know mine was!
Your truck probably has an official payload rating around 2100-2200#, which does not leave much for pin weight by the time you add people, stuff and hitch. Look at the yellow tire loading label on your drivers door pillar for the actual numbers for YOUR truck.
My truck is not so different except it is 2WD and would be maxed out on payload with my 9600# fiver if it was 4WD.
BTDT - pulled a 15K GVWR fiver that put me 400# over GVWR for a VERY short while until I realized it was too much trailer for the truck.
YMMV.
As for the LLY overheat issue - it was reported on less than 1.5% of trucks with that engine and only showed up on those under extreme grade, heat and maximum trailer conditions.
Some rocket scientist of a GM engineer thought it was a good idea to pull hot intake air from behind the radiator!
This changed in 2006 and GM would install the 2006 LBZ air cleaner system on the LLYs for anyone who asked (there was a TSB out on it). This drew cool air from under the fender. So if you look at a 2004.5 or 2005 LLY, check to see if it has a square (original) or round (replacement) air cleaner box. Too late now for the warranty to cover it of course.
I had mine done and I did see a 10 - 15 degree drop in running temperature. I have never heard the secondary fan kick in since.

JIMNLIN wrote:
Your 2500 chevy has the same Dmax/A and the big 11.5" AAM rear axle as the 3500 DRW truck which can tow up to 16700 lbs so you won't need aux cooling for anything , IMO.

You sure gonna' need help with the trucks rear suspension. Using 20 percent of a 14200 lb GN/5th wheel trailer is 2840 lbs. Many 2500 GM 4x4 trucks unladin rear axle weighs 2800-3000 lbs which leaves around 3000 lbs for a payload. Now add folks/stuff in the truck and a 5th wheel hitch and the rear axle may weigh 3200-3400 lbs road ready. Your going to be over your trucks 6084 RAWR numbers.
That means upgrading tires and wheels to 3500-3700 lbs capacity and adding air bags or Supersprings or take the truck to a spring shop and have them add another spring to the main spring pack or the spring pack from a 3500 SRW. Lots of options for beefin' up the suspension

Remember the 2500 is the same truck as a 3500 SRW with its 7000 RAWR.

You really need to weigh your trucks front and rear axle separately. That way you know what actual numbers your working with.
Oh yeah, the trucks brakes stops the truck and the trailers brakes stops the trailer regardless of size out here in the real world.

Wow, more good info here Jimnlin! I have to admit something here. This RAWR is a new term to me. What is this and how do I find my value on this. I don't recall seeing this in my manual. I upgraded to new Michelin E rated tires. 9" wide and approx. 3400 lbs. each. I have heard my 2500 is a 3500 less a leaf spring. Same power plant, etc... It's for this reason that I have posted this. The dealers all say that they sell these Voltages all day to 3/4 ton diesel truck owners but you have to do your homework before taking them at their word. I am hoping more with experience chime in here. Thanks!

jimsryker wrote:
From what I've been told, it's not what you can tow but rather what can you stop...

Actually, it's not what you can tow, it's what you can haul. Half tons and SUVs run into this all day long on a smaller scale. The truck runs out of GVWR/RAWR for tongue/pin weight long before you get to the max tow rating.

FYI, I have the same issue on the Suburban, rear axle is rated at 6084, which is coincidentally 2x the rating of the stock 245 tires at 3042 lbs each. I went to 8" wide rims and 265/75-16E tires which are rated at 3415 lbs each, giving me an extra 746 lbs of capacity on the rear axle. My 14-bolt 10.5" is not as stout as the AAM in the pickups but is still rated at 10k lbs in other applications.

Your 2500 chevy has the same Dmax/A and the big 11.5" AAM rear axle as the 3500 DRW truck which can tow up to 16700 lbs so you won't need aux cooling for anything , IMO.

You sure gonna' need help with the trucks rear suspension. Using 20 percent of a 14200 lb GN/5th wheel trailer is 2840 lbs. Many 2500 GM 4x4 trucks unladin rear axle weighs 2800-3000 lbs which leaves around 3000 lbs for a payload. Now add folks/stuff in the truck and a 5th wheel hitch and the rear axle may weigh 3200-3400 lbs road ready. Your going to be over your trucks 6084 RAWR numbers.
That means upgrading tires and wheels to 3500-3700 lbs capacity and adding air bags or Supersprings or take the truck to a spring shop and have them add another spring to the main spring pack or the spring pack from a 3500 SRW. Lots of options for beefin' up the suspension

Remember the 2500 is the same truck as a 3500 SRW with its 7000 RAWR.

You really need to weigh your trucks front and rear axle separately. That way you know what actual numbers your working with.
Oh yeah, the trucks brakes stops the truck and the trailers brakes stops the trailer regardless of size out here in the real world.

donn0128 wrote:
Had a 2004 LLY once upon a time. GVWR is 9200 pounds. What does your truck scale loaded ready for a trip?
What I will tell you is this..... Originally bought a fifth wheel with a GVWR of 13,750 pounds to tow around. After the first trip to the scales, i figured out the truck scaled 10,500 pounds with the fiver in tow. After a fashion the truck would straight line pull fine. Plenty of power for that. Where it got squirlly was in the mountains. Add in the LLY's overheating issues when pushed to the max and that truck lasted three years with that much load before I could get rid of it for a dually. Best thing I ever did was get a truck capable of handling the load instead of trying to band aid a marginal truck any longer.

Thank you Don. Good input and this was exactly what I was looking for. I think they have the overheating issue cleared by 2006. I pulled my intake and I see the correction on the port to the turbo. I'm so disappointed on the limits to my hauling ability. I have heard that the only difference between my 3/4 ton and a 1 ton is a single leaf spring. I was thinking that air bags would make that up. From what I've been told, it's not what you can tow but rather what can you stop...