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joebedford's avatar
joebedford
Nomad II
Aug 23, 2016

24/48V DC to 120/240V AC inverter?

I'm toying with the idea of getting an electric car. However, electricity in Ontario is so expensive I suspect electric is more expensive than gasoline.

All the talk of solar and inverters in this forum got me wondering about using that technology for the car and (as my mind drifted) for the S&B.

I know there are 240V inverters as that's what most of the world uses except they're 50hz. Some inverters says they're stackable to increase output and some say you can stack and make 240V. I need 240V for my well pump. My clothes dryer is also 240V but if I go down this road I'll convert it to propane. The most power hungry appliance we have is our hot tub: 60A 240V. It is programmable to reduce the maximum load to 20A.

I understand the need for a lot of solar and a lot of battery and that it's not cost effective just to run an electric car. I have plenty of room for solar and the $$ just might break even when I eventually sell the house.

Thoughts on the technology? I know about Tesla Powerwall but their site is very short on details.

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  • time2roll's avatar
    time2roll
    Nomad
    Aug 23, 2016
    brulaz wrote:
    FYI our latest monthly (July) Ontario Hydro bill (Canadian $ and ¢) :

    Electricity: On-Peak: 24.3420 kWh @ 18.0000 ¢ $4.38
    Electricity: Mid-Peak: 28.4262 kWh @ 13.2000 ¢ $3.75
    Electricity: Off-Peak: 79.5960 kWh @ 8.7000 ¢ $6.92
    Delivery $52.97
    Regulatory Charges $1.13
    HST (87086-5821-RT0001) $8.99
    Total of your electricity charges $78.14


    Fixed delivery? wow.

    Set the car timer to charge off-peak. 8.7 / 4 = 2.5 cents per mile.
    30 mpg car $3 per gallon = 10 cents per mile.

    Even if you charge on-peak the electric is less.

    EV wins :B

    Winter economy could suffer but easy to preheat the vehicle when charging. Never going to a gas station... priceless.
  • GordonThree's avatar
    GordonThree
    Explorer
    Aug 23, 2016
    Same here, the taxes, fees and transmission charges are a lot more than the electric per kilowatt.

    Last month was super hot, ran a lot of AC. Used about 1.1 megawatt-hours that month for $160. My utility doesn't charge based on time of day, although maybe that's coming when they finish the smart meter roll-out.
  • brulaz's avatar
    brulaz
    Explorer
    Aug 23, 2016
    FYI our latest monthly (July) Ontario Hydro bill (Canadian $ and ¢) :

    Electricity: On-Peak: 24.3420 kWh @ 18.0000 ¢ $4.38
    Electricity: Mid-Peak: 28.4262 kWh @ 13.2000 ¢ $3.75
    Electricity: Off-Peak: 79.5960 kWh @ 8.7000 ¢ $6.92
    Delivery $52.97
    Regulatory Charges $1.13
    HST (87086-5821-RT0001) $8.99
    Total of your electricity charges $78.14

    The actual electricity charges are pretty small.
    The biggest part is Delivery and Taxes (HST).
    But then we don't use much electricity compared to some: no A/C.
    We do use more in the winter.
  • GordonThree's avatar
    GordonThree
    Explorer
    Aug 23, 2016
    Is the goal to power the car or the entire house from the Sun?

    Power the car, sure, power the house, did you win the lotto? If so, what's the problem?

    $30,000 to 50,000 for a solar system will buy a lot of gasoline! Ontario isn't the deserts of California, Nevada or Arizona... I imagine the weather is quite similar to that of Michigan, and Michigan is not a solar friendly state. The government / NASA has researched and confirmed this - we just don't get enough sun. Somewhere there's a map from NASA or maybe NOAA that shows the line cutting through North America, showing where solar makes sense and where it doesn't. I know the line is well south of Michigan.

    Solar works for an RV because nine out of ten times the occupant(s) seek "fair weather". They're not living off their solar system in Northern North America in the deep of winter where you get six hours of sun every ten to fourteen days. Campers have the ability to track the sun, when it gets cold and dark, the move south where's not cold and dark :)
  • time2roll's avatar
    time2roll
    Nomad
    Aug 23, 2016
    joebedford wrote:
    I'm toying with the idea of getting an electric car. However, electricity in Ontario is so expensive I suspect electric is more expensive than gasoline.
    How about post your local fuel and electric rates.

    Depending on the vehicle and driving style you should get about 4 miles per kWh.

    Does the utility allow net metering? Is there any TOU (time of use) rate schedules available?

    Have you talked to a solar installer? You should.
  • MEXICOWANDERER's avatar
    MEXICOWANDERER
    Explorer
    Aug 23, 2016
    I would recommend you chat with actual off-grid experienced Ontario folk who have already worn the numers off the keys if calculators performing innumerable calculations with actual real latitude experience. Start off realizing you are going to need grid panel towers with tracking. Attempting to reinvent the wheel can be both costly and discouraging.
  • pianotuna's avatar
    pianotuna
    Nomad III
    Aug 23, 2016
    Power wall makes no financial sense if you have lots of space.

    8 12 volt 105 pound telecom tower "take out" jars have the same usable capacity as the power wall and cost about $125 each plus tax.

    There are plenty of 240 volt 60 cycle output inverters. Some of them are hybrid units.

    Outback makes stackable units so you could start small and grow the system over a period of time.

    Cost of running an electric car is about 1/4 of using gasoline. What does cost is the initial purchase price.

    Ontario used to have a great "buy back" power scheme for grid tied solar. Unless you insist on redundancy (i.e. power during outages) that is going to be the cheapest route to follow, with a small grid tied inverter on each panel. Again that means you can add modules over a period of time (even years).

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