Battery gassing.

A point of clarification- the CO theory was a very early one, the hydrogen Sulfide poisoning is the final cause given- after months of testing.

This was odd from the beginning- the SUV simply slowed down and crashed in to the left hand guard rail- a low speed crash. When Troopers approached the car, they saw the lady and her child unconscious, and the motor was still running. They broke a window, and were immediately overcome by fumes. Hazmat was called, they were decontaminated, but by the time they got to testing the air in the SUV, it was clean.

CO poisoning is classically detected in autopsies because the victims are "cherry-red" in color: "Hemoglobin acquires a bright red color when converted into carboxyhemoglobin, so poisoned cadavers and even commercial meats treated with carbon monoxide acquire an unnatural reddish hue."

So it would be strange that there was difficulty in identifying the cause. Of course I'm not a medical examiner and I'm sure there are plenty of confounding issues that might hide the CO poisoning.

Intrude upon an H2S area and the eyes will sting. Yes, H2S is pervasive. Unlike straight hydrogen it does not tend to rise. Many bad batteries smell like sulfur. It's best to not chance it even though the production of H2S would be under a tenth of one percent of gas emissions.

Around batteries, eye and skin protection and first aid materials -at hand- are paramount. Heat battery acid to 150F. immerse a chunk of hamburger while dressed in HAZMAT suit. What you will see is guaranteed to leave a lasting memory.

RE: The battery in the car. If it degraded to the point that the car would not start that would have nipped the problem in the bud. Second point. If the vehicle had a runaway voltage regulator would not that model of vehicle have a fault announcement and revert to open loop limp home?

Maybe there is NOTHING wrong with the battery?

The individuals were found expired. The autopsy claimed H2S was the offender. Now it's CO that's a suspect. Not in blood but in urine. This stinks.

The oxidation of hydrogen sulfide into sulphuric acid is a slow process. You can fill a room, or in this case a car, with deadly amounts of the former, and that enclosed space will remain toxic from H2S for hours and hours.

It is instructive that the reports says the battery in the car was the battery with which it was sold, but it is not clear whether it is an original equipment battery.

Since I know that hydrogen sulfide poisons the olfactory nerve first, it's been my policy both when working as a chemist, then as a waste-water chemist, and finally in a photographic darkroom, if I smelled hydrogen sulfide, I got out of there before it could overcome me. Now that YOU are educated, if you smell it, you know something is badly amiss, and you should get out of there, too.

We had vessels containing KCN under high pressure. Inhalation of colloidal particles was probable in case of vessel failure. Perhaps I could have used a better example. Thank you for the clarification.

The medical examiner needs to be censured.

BTW the mutation to sulfuric acid H2SO4 also occurs upon inhalation of SO2 sulfur dioxide. And of course hazardous to the eyes.

The greater danger, by far IMHO, to an RV'er is carbon monoxide.

agesilaus wrote:

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
After two, not three or four, sniffs, H2S obliterates the olfactory sense. Cannot smell it anymore. We had extensive training in the refinery*. Regarding the remark about H2S and cyanide: inhalation of potassium cyanide is 100 percent fatal. A snort of H2S is not fatal but it does not take long to poison the system perhaps ten or twelve breaths.

First thing, Potassium Cyanide (KCN) is a white powder so unless you stick some up your nose or ingest it you won't be poisoned at all. Hydrogen cyanide has a LC50 (lethal concentration that will kill 50 percent of those exposed) of somewhere between 500 and 700 ppm. Hydrogen sulfide has a LC50 of about 700 ppm. So I don't see much difference, H2S might not be more deadly but it's just as deadly.

I worked with KCN daily in a lab with no special precautions other than gloves and eye protection and lived to tell the tale. We did keep a special Cyanide First Aid Kit just in case. We finally decided to get rid of it and use a different procedure. Not because of the dangers of KCN but because the first aid kit was so expensive and hard to get and we had strong doubts that the EMS people, who were the ones who would of had to use it, would ever get here in time to do any good. We timed them a couple times when they were called for other incidents and it was taking them at least 10 minutes to get to the site.

People in the metal extraction and plating industries work with KCN by the barrel full.

:C Thanks for this.

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
After two, not three or four, sniffs, H2S obliterates the olfactory sense. Cannot smell it anymore. We had extensive training in the refinery*. Regarding the remark about H2S and cyanide: inhalation of potassium cyanide is 100 percent fatal. A snort of H2S is not fatal but it does not take long to poison the system perhaps ten or twelve breaths.

First thing, Potassium Cyanide (KCN) is a white powder so unless you stick some up your nose or ingest it you won't be poisoned at all. Hydrogen cyanide has a LC50 (lethal concentration that will kill 50 percent of those exposed) of somewhere between 500 and 700 ppm. Hydrogen sulfide has a LC50 of about 700 ppm. So I don't see much difference, H2S might not be more deadly but it's just as deadly.

I worked with KCN daily in a lab with no special precautions other than gloves and eye protection and lived to tell the tale. We did keep a special Cyanide First Aid Kit just in case. We finally decided to get rid of it and use a different procedure. Not because of the dangers of KCN but because the first aid kit was so expensive and hard to get and we had strong doubts that the EMS people, who were the ones who would of had to use it, would ever get here in time to do any good. We timed them a couple times when they were called for other incidents and it was taking them at least 10 minutes to get to the site.

People in the metal extraction and plating industries work with KCN by the barrel full.

After two, not three or four, sniffs, H2S obliterates the olfactory sense. Cannot smell it anymore. We had extensive training in the refinery*. Regarding the remark about H2S and cyanide: inhalation of potassium cyanide is 100% fatal. A snort of H2S is not fatal but it does not take long to poison the system perhaps ten or twelve breaths.

MSA Mine Safety Appliance gear.

Emissions from batteries include H2SO4, hydrogen, oxygen, H2S, SO2, etc. Heavier (saturated) vapors can carry limited amounts of lead and antimony.

Simple electrolysis produces 02 and hydrogen. Complex electrolysis produces various compounds involving, hydrogen, oxygen, and sulfur.


I just read the news account: Something is BADLY amiss here. H2S does NOT dissipate from the blood easily. WTH. When it kills by inhalaton, it stops body functions in its tracks -100% shutdown-

How did H2S get into the victims urine? Being a paramedic I am aware of this stuff.

Somebody with more credentials needs to perform a 2nd autopsy. H2S

BURNS THE LUNGS

H2S in the presence of 02 changes to H2SO4

Somebody screwed up royally on this one - and as usual the news media goes for the jugular -If It Bleeds It Leads-

Updated: OSCEOLA COUNTY, Fla. - Eyewitness News found out carbon monoxide may have killed a mother and daughter on the Florida Turnpike last week.

Hydrogen sulfide is that 'rotten egg' smell coming from an over-charged lead acid battery

Hydrogen gas is also produced when charging a lead acid battery but minimal amounts when charged correctly.

I see from a different article........

"The battery was not the original battery for the vehicle, nor the correct battery and is believed to have malfunctioned,"

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-latifa-lincoln-dead-hydrogen-sulfide-20161004-story.html