Bedroom AC Outlets Loose Power

allenm wrote:
I have to question whether they are rated for 3 sets of wire.

If they are Hubbell Wirecon devices, they are rated for 3 sets. I know everybody looks down on these IDC (insulation displacement connector) devices, yet I wonder if they are inherently bad or if the failures could be traced to installation issues? When using the special tools installation is fast, but possibly less forgiving of improper technique. In my RV, with the microwave in the slideout and the way it is wired, there are 8 sets of IDCs in the line from the breaker box to the microwave. Being the heaviest 120 volt current load in the rig, if the IDC devices were really horrible the microwave would hardly ever work with 8 of them in the line!

It looks like I was wrong about the fridge/gfci requirement, but those are not rated for 3 wires- they can be used with a pass through and add a circuit. I would bet they came to the end of a roll.
I would just replace it with metal weather tight.

My refer cooling is not on a GFCI but the ice maker is. Don't know what motivated Monaco to run a second wire other than the ice maker water. :B

And the ice maker plug is one of 18 plugs on the single GFCI which gets it's power from the pass through inverter. Gotta love Monaco.

Being a snow bird with time on my hands, I plugged night lights into the bath and bedroom outlets. Then I wiggled and thumped on the frig receptacle while my wife watched the lights. Sure enough the bedroom light would flicker but not the bath. As near as we could tell, the frig never lost power.

I pried the back off the frig receptacle... after flipping the breaker for that line. It has 3 sets of wires pressed down into the contacts. Apparently one set is incoming power and one of the outgoing sets feeds the GFCI in the bath and the other outgoing set feeds bedroom.

The outermost set of wires (probably for the bedroom) seem to be barely gripped by the contacts, but I couldn't push them in any deeper. I have to question whether they are rated for 3 sets of wire. Back in the day when I did house wiring, it wasn't code to have more than 2 sets of romex lines in a duplex box.

As soon as I can, I'm going to replace this thing with a outside residential box and heavy duty receptacle. These rinky-dink things may meet RV code, but I don't like or trust them.

In any case, now I can't get the bedroom outlets to flicker.

deleted duplicate

Before GCFI "a 5-year old that sticks a knife in a receptacle" was a one-time event. An overwhelming majority of them lived. An even greater overwhelming majority wouldn't do it again for a case lot of Fleer Double Bubble.

allenm wrote:

enblethen wrote:
NEC article 551 covers both the RVs and RV parks.
I did find under art 551.41 Para C exception 1 that it is not required for receptacles dedicated to appliances.

In my case, I don't think we can say the frig outlet is dedicated to the frig. It does happen to be the 1st outlet fed by that circuit in the WFCO box, but then it has 2 lines leaving it. One feeds the bath/kit GFCI line, and the other feeds the non-GFCI bedroom outlets.

My microwave outlet would be an example of a dedicated receptacle not requiring GFCI, even tho it's in a cabinet over the sink. It doesn't feed anything else.

By the way, my frig outlet is maybe 3" away from the louvers on its outside panel. I could see rain blowing in and getting on it.

It's a dedicated receptacle—nothing else reasonably plugs into the fridge outlet. It's not a dedicated circuit. Assuming the code exception is indeed specifically for a dedicated receptacle rather than a dedicated circuit, the design is compliant. I don't have the inclination to look it up for myself.

In my opinion, code exceptions notwithstanding, it is wisest to have the fridge outlet be GFCI protected even if not required by the electric code, since RV fridge elements not infrequently fail and leak power to ground, posing a genuine safety hazard. Likewise, it would seem wise to have the water heater element, if equipped, GFCI protected for the same reason.

allenm wrote:

enblethen wrote:
NEC article 551 covers both the RVs and RV parks.
I did find under art 551.41 Para C exception 1 that it is not required for receptacles dedicated to appliances.

In my case, I don't think we can say the frig outlet is dedicated to the frig. It does happen to be the 1st outlet fed by that circuit in the WFCO box, but then it has 2 lines leaving it. One feeds the bath/kit GFCI line, and the other feeds the non-GFCI bedroom outlets.

Let's look at it. The power cable comes from the breaker box to that outlet. That outlet only powers the refrigerator, so it is an appliance dedicated outlet. It is not visible for a 5 year old to stick a knife in it. Then, the wire goes on to bedroom outlets which do not require GFCI, as well as to wet location outlets, which have a GFCI outlet protecting them. I see no wiring problem with that. All of the non-protected junctions are in locations not accessible to end users.

enblethen wrote:
NEC article 551 covers both the RVs and RV parks.
I did find under art 551.41 Para C exception 1 that it is not required for receptacles dedicated to appliances.

In my case, I don't think we can say the frig outlet is dedicated to the frig. It does happen to be the 1st outlet fed by that circuit in the WFCO box, but then it has 2 lines leaving it. One feeds the bath/kit GFCI line, and the other feeds the non-GFCI bedroom outlets.

My microwave outlet would be an example of a dedicated receptacle not requiring GFCI, even tho it's in a cabinet over the sink. It doesn't feed anything else.

By the way, my frig outlet is maybe 3" away from the louvers on its outside panel. I could see rain blowing in and getting on it.

NEC article 551 covers both the RVs and RV parks.
I did find under art 551.41 Para C exception 1 that it is not required for receptacles dedicated to appliances.