Contradictions with EV’s

pianotuna wrote:

So what is recycled on an ice?

Happily, the answer is yes for a Bev -- the batteries that power electric cars can be recycled.

Source: https://auto.howstuffworks.com/can-electric-car-batteries-be-recycled.htm

Ahem, that bit of info is from 2011....about a decade ago.

Here is something published about a year ago---

And remember, we don't know...what we don't know.

...With the development of electric vehicles involving lithium ion batteries as energy storage devices, the demand for lithium ion batteries in the whole industry is increasing, which is bound to lead to a large number of lithium ion batteries in the problem of waste, recycling and reuse. If not handled properly, it will certainly have a negative impact on the environment and resources....

The Methods of Recovering Lithium Ion Batteries

Recycling for LIBs usually involves both physical and chemical processes (Harper et al., 2019). Due to the complex assembly process of LIBs and the wide variety of electrodes, it brings great danger for the recovery of battery. The explosion, combustion and poisonous gas brought on the recovery process are easy to cause casualties. To reduce this risk, spent LIBs usually need to be discharged before recycled. Physical processes usually include pretreatment and direct recovery of electrode materials. These processes usually include disassembly, crushing, screening, magnetic separation, washing, heating treatment, etc. Chemical processes can be divided into pyrometallurgical and hydrometallurgical processes, which usually involve leaching, separation, extraction and chemical/electrochemical precipitation.

BTW, the pyrometallurgical process requires furnace temps excess of 700 degrees Celsius (about 1300 degrees Fahrenheit)...which will require the input of fossil fuels.

Can we agree on this point....BEV battery recycling industry is still in it's infancy (we don't know what we don't know) and the current process is environmentally dirty.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fchem.2020.578044/full

time2roll wrote:
Many or most states charge the road tax to the registration. I assume the rest will soon follow.
Never mind carbon, I want clean air. Yes the utilities are still in transition to solar and wind. Great progress has been made in 50 years. With any luck progress to cleaner air will continue.

Most states severely undercharge EVs for roads.

On a side note:

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrEwhWg_JlhP7gAoR9XNyoA;_ylu=Y29sbwNiZjEEcG9zAzEEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Ny/RV=2/RE=1637510432/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fwww.wired.com%2fstory%2fnorway-electric-vehicle-tax%2f/RK=2/RS=Dalktgj50RXbid1x4tycIkxp8p4-

Norway has been at the lead subsidizing EVs and they are running into a problem...of course, they would be a poor backwater if they didn't sell massive amounts of that nasty oil. They are the highest producers per capita in the world.

pianotuna wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

pianotuna wrote:
Quite misleading.

....

There are at least 2 Bev's that have integrated solar panels. For my own particular use pattern, I would essentially never have to plug in unless I were on a trip of over 300 miles.

True, slapping solar panels on a car provides almost no useful range, while adding weight, cost and carbon costs

I would not call 21 miles per day "no useful range". I live in a small city. Heck, I don't even drive every day.

Sion from Sono.

The Lightyear one provides 450 miles of total range, and about 30 to 40 miles of solar range per day (in the summer, just to be fair).

So if they get it up to 75% efficient panel, you would have a point.

Lightyear one has a projected (probably come in higher if they ever go into production) of $170k...cheaper to just pay for a charge. Certainly not a practical solution. Haven't seen independent testing to confirm their claims.

As said, if you only need a couple miles per day, it's viable but that meets the needs of very few people...also, you aren't eliminating hardly any oil consumption, since you weren't consuming any to begin with.

“ The vid is total FUD aka fake news against EVs and wont change anything.
Future is electric.”

Fair enough, but there’s really no free lunch…Consider Lithium mining, eh?…Thank goodness that we have sufficient domestic hydrocarbon resources to generate wholesale quantities of electricity to help fuel EV’s…And, this additional EV contribution to the carbon reservoir will assist at greening the planet by preventing a carbon dioxide drought (a critical fertilizer without which, at 180ppm plants won’t grow!!)…BTW, U.S. oil ‘producers’ (not refiners) don’t actually get subsidies - what they do get are investment tax credits (a temporary tax off-set) for the uber risk associated with oil exploration (e.g. ‘production’ activities)…As far as CA is concerned, I can’t be certain, but for Alberta’s part my guess is they are possibly a self-supporting Province (I donno?)…As far as these dreaded wars go, I can’t agree enough, however (though quite capable…) I don’t once recall a single incident where the ‘Pirating’ of any M.E. or Venezuelan oil ever occurred, but that’s just me…

I truly do admire the marvel of EV technology, but (back on topic) find the narrative surrounding a lower ‘net’ carbon footprint misleading while empirically unproven…

3 tons

+1 for making the Middle East irrelevant. Possibly Russia too.

ReneeG wrote:

3 tons wrote:
It’s common knowledge that EV’s produce LESS CO2, right??…Either way, FINALLY a long overdue dose of cogent objectivity has been allowed to enter the discussion :)

Link to presentation

3 tons

Excellent presentation. Now I know more.

Wonder why he didnt mention the cost of getting the Oil out of the ground and related destruction of the enviroment.

And related bilions of $$$ Gov monetary subsidies to Oil producers.

And kiling milions of Iraqis Afganis Venezuelans Iraqis etc
and destroying other places in our thirst for Oil.

The vid is total FUD aka fake news against EVs and wont change anything.
Future is electric.

larry cad wrote:
I'm sorry, I don't get it! I was taught many years ago that trees need CO2 to produce oxygen. When did that change?

"Carbon dioxide is indeed plant food and more plant food means more plants, more forests"

When did CO2 become our enemy? Weird!

Its not,,

carbon monoxide is !
You know the stuff that comes outta your exhaust pipe. :B

https://youtu.be/iSfNvMR-Yww

Want clean air? Require every Country to manufacture anything they want import to our Country with the same Labor and Environmental requirements we impose on our Companies.

Want clean air?? With all the unhinged alarmism (a gov’t funded prosecution arriving at 50-100 year subjective outcome modeling?), the public deserves exposure to the impartial science rather than engineered narratives (science driven by herd consensus) …Where do we find these Saintly academicians that remain unaffected by large infusions of gov’t green-grant cash??…Freed of the burden of authentic scientific proofs regarding ICE vs EV ‘net’ carbon impacts (why should EV’s get a pass?…), except for the usual ‘consumption preference’ thingy, I’ve yet to see an objective environmental case to be made for EV’s…Personal preference is a different topic…

3 tons

Timmo! wrote:

pianotuna wrote:

Timmo! wrote:
How many thousands of gallons of water are required to extinguish BEV fires?

How many lbs of heavy metals are released while BEV's roast like marshmallows? (Per Tesla advice of letting BEV fires burn out naturally).

Oh what tales we weave....

How many ice fires last year? 150,000. I think EV fires are much less of a problem.

Dealerships don't love BEV technology because there is so little to fix. No more oil changes, longer lasting brakes, and the like.

How is replacing "bad" ICE vehicles with an equivalent "bad" BEV progress? Especially at a significant financial premium?

We don't know what we "don't know". What is the salvage/recycle plan when replacing BEV lithium batteries (sourced from open pit mining operations) at the "end of life"--or every 10 or so years?

For us that have been around, do remember the promises made by the "alternative energy" elites about clean nuclear energy...problem was not the operations of nuke plants, but what to do with the nuke waste. What is the disposal plan for expired lithium batteries?

Many of us have seen this movie before.

So what is recycled on an ice?

Happily, the answer is yes for a Bev -- the batteries that power electric cars can be recycled.

Source: https://auto.howstuffworks.com/can-electric-car-batteries-be-recycled.htm