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evy's avatar
evy
Explorer
Feb 13, 2016

DIY project, Electrical diagram, help needed!

I'm building my camper van on a Ford E250 extended platform with high top.

Haven't bought any electrical stuff yet.

When I'm done building this thing, I will be boondocking (nothing crazy) but also plugged in shore power, I will have a 30amp system with 2 batteries, a generator, inverter, converter, charger, 12v and 110v fuse panels, microwave, 3 way fridge, no AC (I think for now), no solar panels (I think for now maybe eventually?) gas heater and water heater, 17" laptop, water pump, fans, 12v lights here and there.

Take a look at the diagram I just drew and help me out if you can, I also included my up to date floor plan.

Thanks again guys!



  • Almot's avatar
    Almot
    Explorer III
    beemerphile1 wrote:
    No reason to have a converter if you are almost exclusively boondocking.

    Spend the money on a top quality battery charger instead, or better yet, a solar system.

    Converter will work as a charger with generator.

    Solar is better, it's a good charging source in addition to converter, and with enough solar wattage it can become the main source.

    Battery bank is one of crucial points, for both solar and high-current loads like MW. The problem is - good suggestions don't seem to register even after repeated a few times. This indicates lack of understanding.
  • Pipeman wrote:
    Westend, I think you meant Jack Mayer's website......
    Thank you, yes I did.

    BTW, Tiny cad, a free program for drawing electrical circuits.
  • Now for the DC subsystems. The chassis system (for the engine and headlights and so forth) is basically unchanged and unmolested, so this is basically just the house 12V system. There is a little more variation here in how things are done, so this is only a rough suggestion of one possible basic layout that is sensible.




    The batteries (assuming 12V batteries) are connected in parallel, and the negative goes to the chassis ground. I've shown a shut for an ammeter or battery monitor in this lead to ground, which allows the monitoring of the current going into or out of the battery bank. This is not strictly required, but is quite handy and a simple ammeter is not too expensive. (Note that some of the inexpensive digital panel ammeters cannot measure current bidirectionally, so you're limited to measuring either charge or discharge current, but not both without some sort of a switch. Others will measure current in either direction, perhaps requiring an isolated power supply for the meter.)

    Close to the batteries, as close as practical, is a fuse (or circuit breaker) to protect the rest of the system from a catastrophic short circuit. This might be as good a place as any to talk about fuses and circuit breakers. Their basic purpose is to ensure that the wiring after them cannot carry more current than is safe, and thereby prevent a fire due to overheated wiring. The fuse or circuit breaker rating is thus determined by the ampacity of the wire it's protecting, or at least the maximum size of the fuse is. The wire, in turn, is sized based on the required current for the load. There are actually two related considerations for wire size: one is the wire overheating, and the other is the voltage drop through the wire. The first is basically looked up in tables--you need x gauge wire or larger for y current. The latter is also a function of how long the wire is. Voltage drop is not much of a practical concern for 120V wiring in an RV, but it can be quite important for some 12V applications.

    At any rate, there's the big fuse. This could well connect to a bus bar arrangement, or to some other junction, with wires connecting off to a few different places.

    If you have a large inverter, it should be connected here, possibly with a fuse if the wire gauge going to the converter is smaller than permissible for whatever size big fuse is used. The wires to the converter should be as short as practical.

    Another connection goes through an isolator and to the chassis electrical system. The main purpose of this is to allow the alternator to charge the house battery when the engine is running. There are a few different types of isolators of varying levels of sophistication (and cost); perhaps the simplest to understand is a continuous duty, high current capacity solenoid (a relay) that is controlled by a wire connected to something like the ignition switch in the van. Often there's a pushbutton to turn this solenoid on manually as an emergency start mechanism in case the chassis battery is depleted but the house battery is not, a sort of built-in jumper cables. Some designs are a lot more complex, with time delays and voltage sensing on either side and so on, but the basic goal remains the same. There should be another big fuse for this wire at the other end where it connects to the chassis electrical system. On my motorhome, this connection is made at the positive of the chassis battery.

    A third connection goes to a solar controller and solar panels (with a fuse or circuit breaker as needed). Others can give much better information on solar system design and sizing than I can.

    A fourth connection goes to the DC distribution panel and converter. I forgot to show it in the diagram, but there's quite often a disconnect switch in this connection to enable the house system to be turned off and prevent the battery from being discharged. Usually this is a latching high-current relay, but a plain manual switch with suitable ratings also works. Again, there's a fuse or circuit breaker to protect the wire to the distribution panel.

    Particularly if the converter/charger is in the same chassis as the distribution panel, it's often connected in there. The charge current may well be the largest expected current on this connection.

    From the DC panel, DC circuits go off in all directions to all sorts of things: ceiling vent fans, lights, the fridge, the furnace, the water pump, the water heater controls, 12V sockets, a radio, that 12V gizmo your great aunt Sally sent you, and so forth.
  • You have a lot of questions and uncertainty, and it's far better to ask them than to plow on without understanding what's happening. Getting help from someone more qualified would be a great idea, but you can also learn a lot by research and asking questions.

    I think it's helpful if you think about the electrical system in three separate systems. There's a 120V system, a house 12V system, and a chassis 12V system. There are relatively few connections between them, although the vehicle chassis is a shared ground for both 12V systems. I'll only write about the 120V system here. Please bear in mind that, while I have some experience with wiring and electrical work, I'm not a licensed electrician or anything of that sort.

    Here's a quick crude diagram of a possible 120V system. Neutral and ground connections are not shown, but should go to their respective bus bars in the distribution panel.




    You don't need a transfer switch here, as your generator is not going to be permanently installed and hardwired. Just plug your shore cable into the generator when you're running on generator power. It may take a standard 15A to 30A RV adapter to physically connect. Basically, you're your own transfer switch. (Since it's a portable generator, you'll presumably have to unstow it and monkey with it anyhow, so plugging into it is no real extra difficulty.)

    For a 30A shore power connection, you need 10 gauge wire (or heavier) going to the main breaker (as per the NEC). The various things that use power are wired to branch circuits from the AC distribution panel. They'll be on either 15A or 20A circuits; the former can use 14 gauge wire, but the latter require 12 gauge. It may be simplest to just use 20 gauge throughout and 20A circuits throughout.

    The (future) air conditioner will require a dedicated 20A circuit.
    The microwave/convection oven should have its own circuit, preferably 20A though 15A should, in theory, be sufficient.
    Other things can be distributed as you see fit. I would probably put the converter or battery charger and fridge on one circuit (a "things that should not be powered by an inverter" circuit) and convenience outlets on another (a "things that can be powered by an inverter" circuit). I would not attempt to use the microwave/convection oven with an inverter with only two batteries; it would be a marginal setup at the best.

    I'd suggest planning to put in an outside outlet somewhere. It's quite handy on an RV. It must, of course, be a weather-protected outlet.

    For an inverter, there are a few options. By far the simplest is to just plug whatever you want to use with the inverter into a portable inverter and use it. For using a computer, or watching TV, you don't need a particularly large inverter; 600W should be plenty assuming you don't have a laser printer. (A laser printer uses a lot of power, and would be hard to run from an inverter with two batteries, much like the microwave.)

    Somewhat more sophisticated and more costly and perhaps handier is to have some sort of a transfer switch that shifts some or all of the power for the RV to the inverter. This could be transferring only one or two branch circuits, which is why I suggested having the fridge and coverter/charger on their own circuit. It is also possible to switch the power at the input, so that the inverter powers any AC item in the RV. Doing this means you need to somehow switch out or switch off the things that should not or cannot run from the inverter, such as the battery charger/converter and the fridge in AC power mode.

    I would suggest thinking about installing an EMS unit on the power input; Progressive Industries (not to be confused with Progressive Dynamics) makes some good but unfortunately not inexpensive ones. These devices check the incoming AC power for voltage, proper wiring polarity, and frequency, and disconnect the RV if it's not acceptable.
  • evy what is needed is a way to recharge the battery bank quickly and efficiently.

    Best:

    solar with a 3 or 4 stage controller

    Why is it best? One time cost and nearly zero maintenance.

    Good:

    3 or 4 stage converter (or battery charger) that has at least enough amps to do C/5 (C = capacity of the battery bank in amp-hours at the 20 hour rate).

    Ugly:

    Any converter that puts out just one voltage.

    If I were starting from scratch as you are, I'd look at a battery bank of at least 400 amp-hours. I'd add 600 watts of solar, with a top of the line controller. For extended poor solar days I'd have a smallish 40 amp converter.

    I would rough in duct work for a future air conditioner. RV's are hot as Hades.

    I would maximize insulation and use metal studs.

    I would have at least two vents (three would be even better as when you add air you will loose one). I would put fantastic fans in two of the vents.
  • beemerphile1 wrote:
    No reason to have a converter if you are almost exclusively boondocking.

    Spend the money on a top quality battery charger instead, or better yet, a solar system.


    Sorry I just edited my first post, I won't be exclusively boondocking, I'd say a little bit of both.

    Take a look at my diagram, the converter I specified seems to be very good from the reviews I red, it was proposed by people on this forum, in your opinion is it a "top quality battery charger" ?
  • No reason to have a converter if you are almost exclusively boondocking.

    Spend the money on a top quality battery charger instead, or better yet, a solar system.

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