Electrical Issue?

RLS7201 wrote:
OK, you stated one instance. And how do you know if they have come loose or not, unless you inspect those screws.
Richard

Well Richard. You answered you own question.. Yes I do inspect them from time to time.. I recently added a circuit to the breaker box (Kitchen 2) and checked all screws while I was there.. Not the only time I've had the box open.. Any time I'm in the box I check all screws... NONE have needed re-tightening once I snug 'em down.

RLS7201 wrote:
While some are advocating screw down receptacles over stab locks or punch downs, because they think they stay tighter longer. How about all the loose screws in the RV circuit breaker panels. More posts about loose screws in circuit breaker panels than loose wires in receptacles. Just goes to prove that screws are not the final answer to electrical connection either.

Richard

Some folks (not you) just don't know a whole lot about residential vs RV (SCD) receptacles, the difference in connections and how to correctly terminate the wire and are quick to condemn RV receptacles.

Below is a standard side-wired & back-wired receptacle that is common in residential applications. Note the back-wired "quick-connect" connection and how there is simply a spring to hold the wire in place. No way in h*ll can someone convince me that those are better than the SCD receptacles in RVs which require a special tool that forces the wire into the "stabs". These quick-connect receptacle are known to be a problem in the industry, especially at the end of a circuit run that has many receptacles on it and has a high current draw on the last ones, like say a plug-in heater.

Some residential recepts. have a side-wired terminal where the wire is directly under the head of the screw. The correct procedure is to do a 180 degree wrap of the wire before tightening the screw down to get more surface area contact. Many people don't bother to take this important step or the wire is barely hanging on. With some recepts., you strip the wire and it gets clamped down like in the last photo. This is a better method.

Doesn't matter if it's a cheapo 99 cent receptacle, an RV receptacle or military grade one, the connection is only as good as the person installing it. They're all UL tested and listed. As most know, some of the workmanship in RVs ranges from poor to pathetic and that's the issue. I'll take an RV/SCD receptacle any time.

wa8yxm wrote:
Re: loose screws in the breaker box.

When it takes 3 full turns and then some. on an RV that's only about 3 MONTHS old.. That is not "Crushing of the copper" that's just plain "Never tightened to begin with".

I know an RV Repair tech who says "When I tighten them they don't work loose"

You know what. She's not me. but When I tighten them they don't work loose.

I mean it's been 14 years since I tightened that 3 month old connection down and it's not come loose since..

OK, you stated one instance. And how do you know if they have come loose or not, unless you inspect those screws.
You don't seen to understand that copper under compression does collapse over time and needs to be retentioned. Where as punch downs or stab locks do indeed keep the required tension with their spring action. Again you can't deny the number of circuit breaker panel posts about loose screws vers loose wires in receptacles in RVs.
How can you deny the truth as stated by a professional (Doug) RV tech that the receptacles in RV are not an issue.

Richard

Re: loose screws in the breaker box.

When it takes 3 full turns and then some. on an RV that's only about 3 MONTHS old.. That is not "Crushing of the copper" that's just plain "Never tightened to begin with".

I know an RV Repair tech who says "When I tighten them they don't work loose"

You know what. She's not me. but When I tighten them they don't work loose.

I mean it's been 14 years since I tightened that 3 month old connection down and it's not come loose since..

While some are advocating screw down receptacles over stab locks or punch downs, because they think they stay tighter longer. How about all the loose screws in the RV circuit breaker panels. More posts about loose screws in circuit breaker panels than loose wires in receptacles. Just goes to prove that screws are not the final answer to electrical connection either.

Richard

cavie wrote:

RLS7201 wrote:
So much bad karma about stab lock receptacles used in MHs.
When installed properly they will maintain a tight connection longer than screw down receptacles. Check any screw down after 6-8 years and they will be loose because of the copper crushing.
The stab locks in my 95 Bounder are all original and do not heat when using the microwave, coffer maker, PD9180 converter, or the 1500 watt heater.

Richard

Very interesting. Why do you think The NEC chooses screw down over Stab locks. Enquiring minds want to know.

Which stab locks do you are you referencing?
The stab locks used in RVs or the stab locks used in sticks and bricks?
They are different.
Can you show us the code where the NEC chose the screw downs.
Also do you know the NEC is a NON Governmental entity and has NO punitive powers. The NECs suggestions must be adopted by others to be put in place.

Richard

The problem with the SCD type receptacles used in RVs and mobile homes isn't so much the recept. itself, it's improper punching down of the wires into the "stabs". There is a proper tool specifically for these but I've found at least of couple of SCD recepts. with wires only pushed down onto one of the two "stabs" as in the photo. One stab was bent to the side. They definitely didn't use the proper tool. No excuse for this.

Connecting to only one of the stabs means you will be doubling the amount of current going through a stab connection. SCDs go through very rigorous testing process to meet UL requirements and *should* not be an issue IF properly installed.

The bigger problem is that electrical in RVs never gets inspected by an AHJ for code compliance or workmanship.

SCD recepts are used in part because they are much shallower than an outlet box and thus fit into the thin walls RVs have. Recepts. in houses can also be back-wired where you can push in a stripped wire through a small hole which has spring loaded contacts inside. These can problematic sometimes. I'd take a properly installed SCD recept. any day over doing over a back-wired recept..

pianotuna wrote:
Lantley,

I've NEVER had a household outlet fail in either home or RV nor did my parents. First RV was from 1954. This is anecdotal and not "proof". Total distance for the RV's is pushing 500,000 miles.

Unibox DAMHIK two failures in under six months.

Lantley wrote:

I'm neither an electrician nor an R service tech. The RV outlets have been in service for years and yes a small percentage have had issues. No different than your house outlets they are imperfect as well and a small percentage of those fail as well.
Converting to all house type outlets would not eliminate outlet failures. Outlets fail in stick and brick houses every day.
In the environment that RV are assembled a stab type assembly will be more fool proof in the long run vs. a screw terminal simply because they are easier to assemble and require less effort to make a stable connection.

I've had screw type outlets fail. Twice. In the same house. The first one, I replaced that outlet. The second one, I replaced every outlet in the house. (When the wall above the outlet is too hot to touch, it is a hint.)

Lantley,

I've NEVER had a household outlet fail in either home or RV nor did my parents. First RV was from 1954. This is anecdotal and not "proof". Total distance for the RV's is pushing 500,000 miles.

Unibox DAMHIK two failures in under six months.

Lantley wrote:

I'm neither an electrician nor an R service tech. The RV outlets have been in service for years and yes a small percentage have had issues. No different than your house outlets they are imperfect as well and a small percentage of those fail as well.
Converting to all house type outlets would not eliminate outlet failures. Outlets fail in stick and brick houses every day.
In the environment that RV are assembled a stab type assembly will be more fool proof in the long run vs. a screw terminal simply because they are easier to assemble and require less effort to make a stable connection.

wa8yxm wrote:

dougrainer wrote:
They have used these receptacles in RV's for over 30 years or more. NO PROBLEMS.

Doug I do not like to argue but I PERSONALLY had a problem with one. My problem was minor (I smelled hot wire and quickly made changes)

Another RVer Posted photos of his.. Wires burned and plastic melted Fire hazard.. I'd rate it way higher than the famous fridge.

And There is a you tube video where an RV technician shows "Before and After" of this type of box.... Also very scary.

So there indeed have been problems. NOTE I am not an RV tech so I do not work on rigs. I've spoken to several RV techs and nearly all of 'em have Uni-Box Horror Stories to tell.

I'm neither an electrician nor an R service tech. The RV outlets have been in service for years and yes a small percentage have had issues. No different than your house outlets they are imperfect as well and a small percentage of those fail as well.
Converting to all house type outlets would not eliminate outlet failures. Outlets fail in stick and brick houses every day.
In the environment that RV are assembled a stab type assembly will be more fool proof in the long run vs. a screw terminal simply because they are easier to assemble and require less effort to make a stable connection.