Currently on the Oregon coast. I have free electric here so I want to make the most of it. I added a small Greenhouse outside which I am keeping warm with a small greenhouse heater that has a thermostat. Having to really keep track of things to keep the breakers (mostly It's the protected outlet in the bedroom) from tripping. I realized last night during the storm that the hot water heater kicking on is probably causing some problems. My water heater circuit board is bad so I can't run it on gas at the moment. One option would be to get a new board. But since the electric is free is it possible to run it on electric and just turn it off and on via the breaker? Does that harm it at all to turn it off and on that way? Learned my lesson years ago and have my two space heaters on different circuits. I don't usually run both at once. Probably will this winter however. And for at least another month I'll have the heater running out in the greenhouse. Mostly at night. so while that is on I think I should be able to have another space heater on inside if the water heater is off. Then just turn the space heater off whenever I want to use the microwave or toaster or hair dryer. I just don't want to be running outside to turn the water heater off and on.

Does the electric heating coil inside the water heater cycle on and off ? If it ran continuously, I would expect the pressure/temperature valve would be opening and you would have scalding hot water.

Circuit breakers are not 'designed' to be used as routine On/Off switchesThat is why they use On/Off switches in the circuitsThere ARE CBs designed for that kind of service (marked SWD---Switch Duty).....your RV doesn't use them.

Yes use the breaker to cycle the water heat. Should last long enough to get a new board shipped to you.Also put the fridge on propane.

Google "rv load shedding" and "rv energy management system" to see some power management solutions. Here is a nice solution

I don't really want to run the fridge and the water heater on gas since my electricity is free.

How to make the most of 30 amps | Good Sam Community

42 Replies

MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Oct 24, 2017
Within my near bankrupt lifestyle I seek more EFFICIENT sensible ways to do things. This is a personal choice. I want MUM's on a BUDWEISER budget.

My cheapness extends to businesses in California who offer cost-free diagnosis of smogging a car. I explained to the owner my intention of being out of state but strongly in favor of seeing my toad pass smog. When it does, I get maximum fuel economy. One guy nodded his head.

Want to know what his reaction is? "Bring a liter of genuine Leon Negro beer when you come?" It's legal. I declare it. He smiles and shakes my hand. No communication with Sacramento, no certificate. Part of the agreement is I do not get a written record. But I get to read it on the spot. Oooooo let's see: If I fill up an empty tank with California alcohol before the test the HC and CO goes down a bit but the NOX skyrockets.

This is taking advantage of an agreement made beforehand where I am assured both the other person and myself are aware of reality. Like the cashier in COSTCO that sold Eduardo a hot dog and gave me ten dollars too much in change. The look of shock on her face was priceless. After all I am the one I have to live with.
Huntindog
Explorer
Oct 24, 2017
MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Love it...

How many of you have OWNED an RV campground

And attempted to keep prices low so that respectable poorer campers could enjoy it. Being wealthy does not automatically bring friendliness nor class - trust me.

Only to have people check in, plug in, turn on two roof airs, then take the toad to town for nine hours?

Been smiled at when ADVISING to reduce power level to help keep park rates low?

Then after collecting $78.xx rent for the month, been presented with a $516.xx power bill and that SINGLE camper had been the only one for the month?

CFE PROHIBITED ME from installing separate meters. When I mentioned to this camper the idea of establishing separate accounts for separate sites with separate meters, he chewed me out.

Some folks are unaware, forgivable if they are politely informed then attempt to correct an offense. Those that take no action are not nice people.

If fact the subject can be paralleled to finding a wallet full of cash then making no attempt to contact the owner. It is proof positive if the finder has a PREDATORY outlook on life.

I cannot AFFORD to open another park. And this is the best for everyone, RIGHT?

By the way this has nothing to do with the OP's post. He said nothing about the owner advising him about power consumption. A good park owner takes DAILY meter readings, then analyzes them. It is the owner's duty (sort of ties into common sense) to guide customers.

It really raises my eyebrows to see folks express confusion over something that is so easy to define. But shucks, that's just me...
The OP is a she.
She had a thread a while back about her mechanic wanting more for parts than she could buy them for at the chain parts store.
She actually wanted him to install the part she bought there instead of the one he had.. I think he did it too.. The thread was not clear on that.

At any rate, it shows me what her outlook is.
myredracer
Explorer II
Oct 24, 2017
By this point, it looks like things are off track from the OP's query, but anyway...

pnichols wrote:
In these heater/heated discussions you often read that "electric heaters are 100% efficient" ... meaning that all of the input electricity is used to make something warm.

I find this a misleading statement, in that not all kinds deliver warmth as effectively.
Agree.

Any electric resistance heater itself is 100% efficient however only produce their rated output only if they get 120 volts. Voltage drop in CGs is a very common problem, especially older ones and can be a little or a lot. The heater's output will vary as the square of the voltage. At 10% drop (108 volts) a 1KW heater will put out 810 watts. If you were at 102 volts (15% drop and the point at which a SurgeGuard will cut out), you'll get only 723 watts. (The same principle will affect a fridge's 300 watt element when cooling on electric.) So if camping in colder weather and your heater(s) doesn't seem to be doing a good job, check your voltage.

Dimplex has a little info. on heater efficiency and heater types here.

Infrared type heaters heat objects like human bodies, floors, furniture, equipment., etc. The ceiling mounted types generally require about 10% less watts per square foot compared to conventional space heaters and are a good choice for warehouses and workshops. The oil-filled type heaters work on radiation & convection and are probably a better choice than the little fan-forced ceramic heaters but they are BIG and not suitable unless your RV is also BIG inside, lol. Many plug in a portable heater in living/kitchen area but that will result in the bathroom and bedroom (if a separate room) being cold to icy cold. The built-in thermostats on portable heaters don't work well compared to wall t'stats.

As Wa8yxm mentioned above, there is also the concern of overheated RV type (SCD) receptacles. The ones on the farther end of a wiring run can be more susceptible due to increased number of in/out connections. They are UL/CSA listed for 15 amps however a problem I've found is that the factories sometimes don't punch the wires down on the terminals properly. Installing a dedicated circuit with it's own breaker would be a good idea but the NEC limits the number of breakers in an RV panel to 5 (but you can always install a tandem 15/15 amp breaker).

We have a recessed heater in bedroom, bathroom and living/kitchen area (2KW total on a dedicated circ.) on their own low voltage thermostats and our TT is nice 'n cozy and evenly heated throughout. Rarely use the ridiculously noisy furnace anymore. If RV manufacturers would only do a better job of insulating then electric heating would be a more attractive option and be able to run on lower watts.
pnichols
Explorer II
Oct 24, 2017
Maybe this discussion is mixing up Recreationing in Vehicles with Living in Vehicles.

Short term "camping" in RV parks is a different animal than squating for whatever reason in RV parks for weeks on end. IMHO, for weeks on end stays site electricity should be paid for after, say, around 1-2 weeks of staying put.

For short term hit and run camping in RV in parks ... I can see "free electricity" as being a marketing incentive to maximize business ... and we certainly expect this during our short stays in commercial campgrounds and public campgrounds with hookups.
time2roll
Nomad
Oct 24, 2017
pnichols wrote:
So even though resistance electric heaters are 100% efficient at conversion, no all resistance electric heaters are equal in their efficiency at using electricity to make you feel warm. The difference is radiant heat versus convection heat.
And heat pump will put about two times as much BTU into the RV.
So actually an electric heater is only 50 percent efficient compared to a heat pump.

I still recommend OP should replace the board on the W/H to run it on propane. I like things to work as designed. Then OP can choose heat source depending on conditions. Right now he is stuck with electric only.
MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Oct 24, 2017
Love it...

How many of you have OWNED an RV campground

And attempted to keep prices low so that respectable poorer campers could enjoy it. Being wealthy does not automatically bring friendliness nor class - trust me.

Only to have people check in, plug in, turn on two roof airs, then take the toad to town for nine hours?

Been smiled at when ADVISING to reduce power level to help keep park rates low?

Then after collecting $78.xx rent for the month, been presented with a $516.xx power bill and that SINGLE camper had been the only one for the month?

CFE PROHIBITED ME from installing separate meters. When I mentioned to this camper the idea of establishing separate accounts for separate sites with separate meters, he chewed me out.

Some folks are unaware, forgivable if they are politely informed then attempt to correct an offense. Those that take no action are not nice people.

If fact the subject can be paralleled to finding a wallet full of cash then making no attempt to contact the owner. It is proof positive if the finder has a PREDATORY outlook on life.

I cannot AFFORD to open another park. And this is the best for everyone, RIGHT?

By the way this has nothing to do with the OP's post. He said nothing about the owner advising him about power consumption. A good park owner takes DAILY meter readings, then analyzes them. It is the owner's duty (sort of ties into common sense) to guide customers.

It really raises my eyebrows to see folks express confusion over something that is so easy to define. But shucks, that's just me...
myredracer
Explorer II
Oct 24, 2017
wa8yxm wrote:
Many campgrounds have rules against electric heat..

Have read a few posts in the past on that but have yet to run across a CG in our travels that restricts electric heat. Have heard the same restriction on autoformers too and haven't come across a restriction on those either. Maybe it's because we use Thousand Trails a lot and even drawing a few amps at some of their CGs can be dicey, lol!

Reserved a site in a CG couple of years ago in a hot spell and they said NO AC units because the main breaker for the whole CG had already tripped a couple of times. Pretty hard to survive in a hot spell without AC but at least with electric heat there's a propane furnace as an alternative.
pnichols
Explorer II
Oct 24, 2017
In these heater/heated discussions you often read that "electric heaters are 100% efficient" ... meaning that all of the input electricity is used to make something warm.

I find this a misleading statement, in that not all kinds deliver warmth as effectively.

We use a small 1500 watt electric heater in our RV that shoots out a nice blast of warmed air that eventually warms up the entire interior. However, in my shop I have a large 1500 watt electric heater that has two large quartz rods that glow a bright orange with a chrome reflector behind them. With this type of quartz radiant heat shooting out into the room - as opposed to only warmed air convection heat coming into the room - my body feels warmth right away ... much faster than the small heater we use in the RV.

So even though resistance electric heaters are 100% efficient at conversion, no all resistance electric heaters are equal in their efficiency at using electricity to make you feel warm. The difference is radiant heat versus convection heat.
MrWizard
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
i wonder IF, by now the OP is regretting the use of the word 'FREE'

im sure she meant the power is included in the 'site rental' and not an extra metered charged

replies get taken to the extreme around here
are we all a bunch of cankerous old senior 'know it all'

where is the logic and the understanding ?

its all fine to point out the dangers, and limitations

its something else to talk about greed, paying, and insinuating thief of service

this my opinion as a 'member' of these forums
wa8yxm
Explorer III
Oct 24, 2017
myredracer wrote:
Why do some people frown on using electric heat and maxing out a 30 amp pedestal when in the summertime, many RV-ers are running AC units (sometimes pushing their luck with 2 of them on 30 amps) along with other loads and nobody, including CG owners, care? Only maybe twice have we had a CG say when reserving a site that power is a problem from AC units due to hot weather.

Many campgrounds have rules against electric heat.. I figure if electricity is included in the rent and I have no choice but to pay it I"m going to use it. 4500 watts are set up in my 50 amp rv just now.

The campgrounds however don't want to have to pay for it.. So they say DON't.

There is another issue too.. And this one .. well I fixed it on my rig.

The wiring in most RV's is "Speed box" or "Quick Box" wiring and is NOT up to spec by a long shot. pulling 12 amps can melt connections and cause fires.. I know of no fires.. but I know of several melted connections.. This is why I have special dedicated outlets that are NOT Quick Box (The brand in my RV) they are 15/20 amp (T shaped neutral) and 12 ga wrapped around a screw and properly tightened. Fully capable of 20 amp loads save for the ones on 15 amp breakers. NO melting, NO overheat, NO hot insulation aroma and NO danger.