Forum Discussion
landyacht318
Mar 14, 2020Explorer
The idea of destranding is not really palatable to me either, but when one can only fit 4AWG wire in the receptacle, and one would much prefer 2awg or thicker, I can't see any issues doing so as long as raw stranding cannot touch anything grounded. ie common sense.
I regularly stuff 8awg wire into 45 amp anderson powerpole contacts, which are supposed to fit 10AWG and no thicker. I have to destrand for them to crimp properly, and I have to reduce insulation thickness in order to seat contact within housing fully. But the 8awg powerpole always outperforms the 10AWG, and the connection stays cooler on the 8awg compared to the 10awg powerpole when being asked to pass the same amperage, for may years now without any issue.
But would love to be given an actual reason rather than an Angry emoji by a self proclaimed master electrician.
Its not like I recommended destranding to below the wire's ampacity. It would be criminal of a converter supplier to have a the DC output outlet size less than the amperage capability of the charging source.
Crushing stranded wire under a screw is hardly an ideal connection anyway. I like the Idea of ferrules, but only if they can match the bottom shape of stranded wire's receptacle.
I had a 100 amp powermax apart, and instead of the aluminum set screw wire retainers, could easily attach thick walled ring terminals right to the circuit board and bypass the whole crush wire under set screw connection, and gain way more reliability and have less electrical resistance and use 0000 if I really needed to.
I've not opened A PD converter, but the Powermax there are two large wide contact points atop and underneath the circuit board's DC outputs. A ~1/4 thick steel bolt and nut simply secures the Aluminum wire set screw retainer to the top of the circuit board. Any electrons passing from, the bottom portion of the circuit board contact is passing through the steel bolt to the top nut and washer then to the aluminum wire retainer then to the wire. I imagine one could attach two ring terminals, one top and bottom sandwiching the circuit board on both the + and the -, and greatly reduce resistance and add adding reliability.
I found the aluminum wire receptacle was not perfectly flat and hardly touching the full area of the circuit board provided for it, and remedied that.
Depends on the aluminum alloy, but in general it is only 60% as conductive as copper.
The voltage drop suffered by too thin of wiring will begin to abate once amperage begins to taper, and while 14.1v might get to battery passing 60 amps over X lenght of X AWG, at 2 amps close to 14.4v should be getting there. Sure its slower to attain the same state of charge as thicker wire....
Is time an issue in the specific application?
The PD is supposed to hold absorption for 4 hours before reverting to lesser voltages when charging a depleted battery, and all one has to do is press the wizard's button once for 4 more hours. hold it a bt longer to induce 13.8 and a bit longer than that for 13.2v. Very easy.
If one has limited periods of time to recharge then minimizing voltage drop converter to battery is wise, along with a source capable of achieving absorption voltage quickly and maintaining absorption voltage that whole time, as well as a battery or enough battery capacity that is not going to have a tantrum if charged repeatedly at high rates with such a high amp charging source over short fat copper and quality terminations.
My adjustable voltage power supply, when I want absorption voltage attained as fast as possible at the battery terminals, I crank voltage higher than 14.7v unloaded, when I first hook it up, but if I walk away at some point it will exceed 14.7v and needs to be lowered as amperage tapers and voltage drop decreases.
There are better solutions, but this one an easy flick of the wrist rather than hooking up the voltage sense lines, or upgrading wire AWG, or shortening the charging path to the battery.
So the adjustable Voltage powersupply/converters have that extra advantage as well. Just crank it a bit higher to account for voltage drop on inadequate wiring, up until one achieves absorption voltage at battery terminals, rather than at converter output terminals. An audible high voltage alarm would likely be wise if one is forgetful, but the forgetful are likely not requiring fast as possible recharging in the first place, or if on the generator, highly unlikely to be forgetful.
Also keep in mind all the recommended battery charging voltages are at 77f/25C. how much of the country is experiencing those types of temperatures this time of year?
how hot will your battery get when high rate charging? Highly variable but a valid concern. Got a batt temp sensor? Does your charging source?
I have started well below 77 f and extremely high rate recharging have exceeded that temperature not too long after reaching absorption voltage at battery terminals, and then dial the voltage down. If I don't then it keeps climbing, exponentially faster. I've also started charging mid/high 40f well depleted battery temperature, and been below 60f when I reach 14.7v, but push it upto 15.1v at battery terminal and higher at source's output, then lower it as temperature dictates.
I regularly stuff 8awg wire into 45 amp anderson powerpole contacts, which are supposed to fit 10AWG and no thicker. I have to destrand for them to crimp properly, and I have to reduce insulation thickness in order to seat contact within housing fully. But the 8awg powerpole always outperforms the 10AWG, and the connection stays cooler on the 8awg compared to the 10awg powerpole when being asked to pass the same amperage, for may years now without any issue.
But would love to be given an actual reason rather than an Angry emoji by a self proclaimed master electrician.
Its not like I recommended destranding to below the wire's ampacity. It would be criminal of a converter supplier to have a the DC output outlet size less than the amperage capability of the charging source.
Crushing stranded wire under a screw is hardly an ideal connection anyway. I like the Idea of ferrules, but only if they can match the bottom shape of stranded wire's receptacle.
I had a 100 amp powermax apart, and instead of the aluminum set screw wire retainers, could easily attach thick walled ring terminals right to the circuit board and bypass the whole crush wire under set screw connection, and gain way more reliability and have less electrical resistance and use 0000 if I really needed to.
I've not opened A PD converter, but the Powermax there are two large wide contact points atop and underneath the circuit board's DC outputs. A ~1/4 thick steel bolt and nut simply secures the Aluminum wire set screw retainer to the top of the circuit board. Any electrons passing from, the bottom portion of the circuit board contact is passing through the steel bolt to the top nut and washer then to the aluminum wire retainer then to the wire. I imagine one could attach two ring terminals, one top and bottom sandwiching the circuit board on both the + and the -, and greatly reduce resistance and add adding reliability.
I found the aluminum wire receptacle was not perfectly flat and hardly touching the full area of the circuit board provided for it, and remedied that.
Depends on the aluminum alloy, but in general it is only 60% as conductive as copper.
The voltage drop suffered by too thin of wiring will begin to abate once amperage begins to taper, and while 14.1v might get to battery passing 60 amps over X lenght of X AWG, at 2 amps close to 14.4v should be getting there. Sure its slower to attain the same state of charge as thicker wire....
Is time an issue in the specific application?
The PD is supposed to hold absorption for 4 hours before reverting to lesser voltages when charging a depleted battery, and all one has to do is press the wizard's button once for 4 more hours. hold it a bt longer to induce 13.8 and a bit longer than that for 13.2v. Very easy.
If one has limited periods of time to recharge then minimizing voltage drop converter to battery is wise, along with a source capable of achieving absorption voltage quickly and maintaining absorption voltage that whole time, as well as a battery or enough battery capacity that is not going to have a tantrum if charged repeatedly at high rates with such a high amp charging source over short fat copper and quality terminations.
My adjustable voltage power supply, when I want absorption voltage attained as fast as possible at the battery terminals, I crank voltage higher than 14.7v unloaded, when I first hook it up, but if I walk away at some point it will exceed 14.7v and needs to be lowered as amperage tapers and voltage drop decreases.
There are better solutions, but this one an easy flick of the wrist rather than hooking up the voltage sense lines, or upgrading wire AWG, or shortening the charging path to the battery.
So the adjustable Voltage powersupply/converters have that extra advantage as well. Just crank it a bit higher to account for voltage drop on inadequate wiring, up until one achieves absorption voltage at battery terminals, rather than at converter output terminals. An audible high voltage alarm would likely be wise if one is forgetful, but the forgetful are likely not requiring fast as possible recharging in the first place, or if on the generator, highly unlikely to be forgetful.
Also keep in mind all the recommended battery charging voltages are at 77f/25C. how much of the country is experiencing those types of temperatures this time of year?
how hot will your battery get when high rate charging? Highly variable but a valid concern. Got a batt temp sensor? Does your charging source?
I have started well below 77 f and extremely high rate recharging have exceeded that temperature not too long after reaching absorption voltage at battery terminals, and then dial the voltage down. If I don't then it keeps climbing, exponentially faster. I've also started charging mid/high 40f well depleted battery temperature, and been below 60f when I reach 14.7v, but push it upto 15.1v at battery terminal and higher at source's output, then lower it as temperature dictates.
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