Norcold 12cu Drains Battery on LP

Circuit breakers have no bearing on your fridge when operating on propane, so it was the battery that was bad.

dougrainer wrote:
GDETRAILER, Why are you arguing a point? The plain fact is Analogs when on Genset are NOT ACCURATE. Digitals are. My take is, if you are too ignorant to understand 110/120 nomenclature, maybe you need to take a RV online course or get a RV for dummies book. ALL RV owners need and understand how to use,
Digital multimeter
12 volt test light
120 digital plug in meter
12 volt digital plug in meter
Understand 12 volt readings for batteries and understand the various voltage readings to determine battery condition.
LAST, READ THE MANUALS THAT COME WITH YOUR RV. Very few do this. Doug

Doug, while I generally respect your knowledge and opinions, I do feel you are stepping quite a few notches out of being respectful (as a side note..been noticing a lot of your posts elsewhere have been not so nice lately).

I can't help the fact that SOME Analog meters may have excessive inaccuracies.. But you must understand the not ALL are inaccurate as you have broadly painted.

When dealing with "Joe public" (which I have), often you need to be able to dial down "techno speak" to something they can understand.

Myself, well as an Electronic Tech for better than 30 yrs working on consumer and industrial electronic and electrical stuff, I do have a very good handle on Analog and digital volt meters.

There are places where digital volt meters are not needed nor wanted, DVMs sometimes will have way to fast reaction time making troubleshooting difficult or impossible to do due to the fast voltage spikes they show.

Some things simply do not need "Fluke" accuracy..

120V stuff IS one of those, we are not splitting hairs over tenths or thousandths of a volt.

It is generally accepted as "normal" for your "line voltage" to be 120V as the nominal voltage. Normal acceptable voltage range allows for +(-) 5% voltage change.

+(-) 5% of 120V is +(-)6V so OPTIMAL "GO" range is 114V-126V

Most equipment designed to use 120V AC is designed for worst case operation of +(-) 10% or +(-)12V which is 108V-136V

Normal non inverter generators are typically set to run slightly faster when unloaded, resulting in a slightly higher voltage of 122V-123V which is well within normally acceptable 5% range.

When loaded the engine RPM sags and the resulting voltage sags under 120V, typically 118V..

And as I pointed out in a previous post, there ARE other Analog 120V plug in volt meters, lots of other brands to chose from.. They do have something called a "search engine" on the wobbly web which you can use to find alternative non Camco products.

And no, I not a big fan of Camco products, it was the first one to pop up when I searched..

All you had to do is simply point out that their (customers) gen voltage is fine and their meter is a bit off on accuracy and if they see the meter go well into the red they need to get things checked out professionally. It is far better to error on the safe side.

Most folks if you showed them a digital readout of 108V-136V they simply would not know what that means (nor do they care) other than they have electricity..

But show them a visual representation which has a green is good and red is bad and they instantly can make the connection of where they stand.

GDETRAILER, Why are you arguing a point? The plain fact is Analogs when on Genset are NOT ACCURATE. Digitals are. My take is, if you are too ignorant to understand 110/120 nomenclature, maybe you need to take a RV online course or get a RV for dummies book. ALL RV owners need and understand how to use,
Digital multimeter
12 volt test light
120 digital plug in meter
12 volt digital plug in meter
Understand 12 volt readings for batteries and understand the various voltage readings to determine battery condition.
LAST, READ THE MANUALS THAT COME WITH YOUR RV. Very few do this. Doug

My point was the OP should have at least an inexpensive voltmeter in her tool bag to troubleshoot electrical issues. She needs to learn her systems.

My other point was dealers aren't 'Cheap' for providing only 1 battery in a typical rv with an absorption fridge. If you feel the need for more battery, stop being 'Cheap' and go buy more. My guess is about half of RV owners get by with just 1 battery.

Carry On

dougrainer wrote:
I state digital because the Analog meter(needle type) are OFF by up to 25% when reading Genset voltage. For years I had customers come in with that cheap Analog meter scared because it showed 109 to 113 volts with their 7k Onan running. I would use my Fluke meter and show them that the ACTUAL voltage was 123 volts with both AC's running. Real world Experience does wonders for using the correct tools. Doug

PS, in your yellow meter, what had them worried was because it SHOWED RED.

That one was from a quick search, many other analog meters similar to the one I found which might show a wider range and better accuracy if you look around..

I mean like another quick search came up with this one..



Looks like 113V-127V as green or good which IS normal and acceptable voltage range..

Typically acceptable voltage drop of +(-)5% from 120V is 6V or 114V to 126V so that meter range is actually correct.

+(-) 10% is 12V or 108V-132V which is the outer limits of normal line voltage which should be avoided..

"110V" is a "figure of speech", 120V is actually what the grid is suppose to be. My home voltage typically hovers around 120V-121V day and night. Recently was camping in high heat, the campground voltage was 110V and was dropping to 108V at times.. Not a good idea for most items if you want it to last.

Digitals can be problematic since the reading refresh is often very fast, it shows "peaks and valleys" in the voltage too easily, meaning folks can get spooked when the display jumps or drops a few volts while they are looking at it.

Not to mention, I don't know of any digital meters which are going to alert the user when the voltage goes out of normal range.

Analog meters are naturally dampened by the meter movement and react far slower averaging out the voltage fluctuations.

There are times when analog meters are more helpful for troubleshooting since they tend to average quick changing voltages.

I state digital because the Analog meter(needle type) are OFF by up to 25% when reading Genset voltage. For years I had customers come in with that cheap Analog meter scared because it showed 109 to 113 volts with their 7k Onan running. I would use my Fluke meter and show them that the ACTUAL voltage was 123 volts with both AC's running. Real world Experience does wonders for using the correct tools. Doug

PS, in your yellow meter, what had them worried was because it SHOWED RED.

dougrainer wrote:
https://www.amazon.com/ICQUANZX-Voltmeter-Measuring-Household-Measure/dp/B08RHT61GT/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1UW6E72RJ0Y5K&keywords=120+volt+lcd+plug+in+monitor&qid=1660756191&s=industrial&sprefix=120+volt+lcd+pluig+in+monitor%2Cindustrial%2C80&sr=1-3

THIS is what every RV needs in the kitchen area 120 plugs. Especially Motorhomes with Gensets. I use BOTH as a RV tech. It makes it very quick to determine if there is power to the RV. Faster than getting out my multitester. Most RV's have a cigarette plug at the TV booster wall plate. AND, most Motorhome Dash plugs, 1 will be connected to the Coach battery system. Doug

Below is also needed.

https://www.amazon.com/Jebsens-Charger-Battery-Monitor-Voltage/dp/B07K2XL6VX/ref=sr_1_37?crid=1BPUKRM0SQ9P&keywords=12+volt+lcd+plug+in+monitor&qid=1660756345&sprefix=12+volt+lcd+plug+in+monitor%2Caps%2C247&sr=8-37

Digital is nice to read, but in some respects isn't going to be "helpful" to the average person who doesn't know or care about electrical voltages.

A meter that spells out clearly what is OK and not OK would be a better choice that gets the point across..



Camco 55263 120V AC Line Voltage Meter found HERE gives a well defined "Go/No GO" indication with green as GO and red as NO GO..

Battery is the same issue, not many folks will understand what 10.5V is and what 14.8V is let alone 12.8V..

Something that shows battery in graphical form gets the point across faster and easier than just a digital voltage readout..

Something like this..



Found HERE is a better choice (although does require some initial setup).

https://www.amazon.com/ICQUANZX-Voltmeter-Measuring-Household-Measure/dp/B08RHT61GT/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1UW6E72RJ0Y5K&keywords=120+volt+lcd+plug+in+monitor&qid=1660756191&s=industrial&sprefix=120+volt+lcd+pluig+in+monitor%2Cindustrial%2C80&sr=1-3

THIS is what every RV needs in the kitchen area 120 plugs. Especially Motorhomes with Gensets. I use BOTH as a RV tech. It makes it very quick to determine if there is power to the RV. Faster than getting out my multitester. Most RV's have a cigarette plug at the TV booster wall plate. AND, most Motorhome Dash plugs, 1 will be connected to the Coach battery system. Doug

Below is also needed.

https://www.amazon.com/Jebsens-Charger-Battery-Monitor-Voltage/dp/B07K2XL6VX/ref=sr_1_37?crid=1BPUKRM0SQ9P&keywords=12+volt+lcd+plug+in+monitor&qid=1660756345&sprefix=12+volt+lcd+plug+in+monitor%2Caps%2C247&sr=8-37

ramsaymike wrote:

2112 wrote:

Thermoguy wrote:
Please get a volt meter - one better than the $15 one...

Or get one of these:

LCD Display

LMAO
You're saying buy a $17 panel mount monitor with external shunt rather than buying a $15 handheld DMM for troubleshooting? Really

The monitor and DMM do not have the same application. That LCD monitor should be standard in every RV. No use guessing what is going on when you can have the real data - accurate DC voltage, current and energy flows. The OP would have seen the real cause of the problem immediately.

Not necessarily true.

Not "everyone" will know, understand or interpret correctly what a more complex battery monitor readout shows and that will end up causing a flood of non issues to blow out of proportion for the manufacturers and dealers and even lead to amateur "sparkies" to needlessly replace parts.

There is a reason many auto manufacturers buffer their gauges or only provide "idiot" lights.

For the average non sparky, a basic "go/no go" simplified battery indicator included with most RVs will work just fine.

2112 wrote:

Thermoguy wrote:
Please get a volt meter - one better than the $15 one...

Or get one of these:

LCD Display

LMAO
You're saying buy a $17 panel mount monitor with external shunt rather than buying a $15 handheld DMM for troubleshooting? Really

The monitor and DMM do not have the same application. That LCD monitor should be standard in every RV. No use guessing what is going on when you can have the real data - accurate DC voltage, current and energy flows. The OP would have seen the real cause of the problem immediately.