The difference between starting and deep discharge batteries

full_mosey wrote:
I'll take a shot at explaining.

Standby = UPS, as you would expect at a cell tower with unscheduled and infrequent frantic discharge. E.g., there may only be enough battery to allow for 15min until auto generator start.

Be careful ! There are UPS batteries and then there are UPS batteries !!

The little UPS you might buy for your home computer or even the medium sized ones used in small businesses are just plain old Valve Regulated Lead Acid (VRLA). You are correct, they only have enough capacity to start the generator or do a controlled shut down.


I used to supervise a LARGE computer server room (the size of a couple of basket ball courts). When the Northeast Black out of 2003 occurred we rode for about 20 minutes before starting to shut down the servers. Actually, I was watching the temps more because the A/C was obviously out. I was rather surprised how well things worked. We even had functioning flashlights in addition to the emergency lighting.

I wish I could have got away with service like that when I was in business

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
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You mean you don't know whether a "street sign" includes the post it is nailed to or not? You must be a robot. Especially if you can't tell anything in those fuzzy pictures. Yep, you are a robot. :(

A YUGO GRADE FORUM MANAGEMENT SYSTEM REFUSED THIS POST

BFL13 wrote:

...
In previous threads it seemed to come out that there are two kinds of "telecom" batts, depending on whether acid- starved or not. If "telecom" batts are Gel, then is it correct to say any AGM is a "telecom" battery, even if it is in "standby" use by a phone company? Are there in fact two kinds of AGMs?

Just guessing, but one other use may be for the ringer in a land-line telephone.

I believe the AGMs I have are from cell-towers and are UPS type. They are spec'ed for 10 years or 260 big discharges down to a low Volts per cell. The drawdown charts show times for constant Watt discharges as opposed the familiar AHs. A UPS bank is likely sized to answer the basic question "How many Watts do you need, and for how long?".

And, I believe I am misusing these AGMs for camping. OTOH, I get 100lb AGMs for $100USD and they "do a days work in a day", for me.

HTH;
John

Good explanations above, thanks. My own "use" is "cycling" but they are on a "float" otherwise between camping sessions. My float is just to maintain them. It is not a "use" like "standby", but has the same "charging voltage" spec as "standby" has in the mid to high 13s.

In previous threads it seemed to come out that there are two kinds of "telecom" batts, depending on whether acid- starved or not. If "telecom" batts are Gel, then is it correct to say any AGM is a "telecom" battery, even if it is in "standby" use by a phone company? Are there in fact two kinds of AGMs?

Acid Starved

Means the chemical process stops before the plates are 100% saturated with lead sulfate. Meaning telecom batteries are less likely to survive long term utter discharged conditions than acid starved batteries that could be recovered using severe recovery methods. Neither is acceptable because acid starved battery owners would likely NOT ATTEMPT TO utilize the protocol for recovery.

Properly used, new telecom batteries have an amazing long lifespan. But the tradeoffs are considerable. "sort-of-like" choosing a 2-volt flooded cell battery.

Sorry about being so tender with regard to process. My sensitivity began way back when they staked Stanley Pons to an anthill. Various claims of alchemy with regard to various "miracle" plate additives and of course PULSE CHARGING. Do you see the raves about pulse charging now? No. Pulse charging has become a minor subtitle in battery charger ads and lore. I detest frauds.

BFL13 wrote:
...

I think you guys are causing extra trouble by talking about "telecom" batts and "server UPS batts" when I can't relate that to my AGM "use" choices of "standby" and "cycle".

I'll take a shot at explaining.

Standby = UPS, as you would expect at a cell tower with unscheduled and infrequent frantic discharge. E.g., there may only be enough battery to allow for 15min until auto generator start.

Cycle = Camping, where the batteries are never totally at rest at float.

Acid starved/surplus: deals with a ratio of S(acid) to Pb(lead); not to be conflated with SG, or the water:acid ratio.

Starved = there is enough lead to absorb all the acid from the water.

Surplus = there is NOT enough lead to absorb all the acid from the water.

HTH;
John

Costco sixers, the ONLY waaaay to GO - lol!!

pianotuna wrote:
BFL13,

I think "starved acid" means there is more "plate" material than "acid". I.E. the electrolyte "runs out" while there is still "active material" on the plate, but the ph has become quite low.

.

Reading stuff from Google Wiki etc, they are clear on what "acid starved" means vs "flooded", but I can't find anything on "surplus acid".

I have the info on low vs high SG in flooded batts. What I am missing is info on the SG of the acid in SLA ("acid starved") batts.

There is also some confusion for me in reading how floating is better with low SG when they also say calcium is better than antimony for that. I am not sure if there is a mix-up there; eg, if it is a co-incidence that high SG just goes with antimony or what.

They say the telecom UPS batts are Gel not AGM too, just to help!

My AGMs have charging specs for use in either "cycle" or "standby" use (the 8D, 6GFM250) or "cycle(repeating use)" and "float use" for the 100AH Stark brand ones.

That sounds like "dual purpose" to me. However, they are not anything like "marine/RV" batts that are dual purpose starting/deep cycle. These AGMs can be deep cycled all you want.

I think you guys are causing extra trouble by talking about "telecom" batts and "server UPS batts" when I can't relate that to my AGM "use" choices of "standby" and "cycle".