The pitfalls of bying Lithium batteries (article)

Glad I'm not manufacturing lithium batteries.

pianotuna wrote:
15 is 200% less than 45.

It is not half-empty, it is half-full :)

When you reduce 45 by 100%, this 45 minus 45 =zero. Can't reduce a material item any further without resorting to devices kept under guard in Area 51.

But you can increase 15 by 200%, yes.

15 is 200% less than 45.

road-runner wrote:
A statement from the linked article:

"Raw Low grade lithium can be as much as 220% lower in cost than high grade refined lithium."

Is it possible for something to be more than 100% less? Isn't "100% less" equal to zero?

The article is not technical. He probably meant 2.2 times lower cost than high grade refined lithium. The point was - with many sources you don't know what you're buying. Low-grade Lithium will affect performance tremendously. 2 or 3 times difference in cycle life between good ones and bad ones is not unheard of.

Mex: There are "some" data on cycle life vs DOD, not much. Relion is one of bigger players - or more aggressively marketed, and by the appearance of their Manual I don't feel like trusting it. Last graph on the last page.
3,000 cycles at 90% DOD and 4,000 at 80% DOD before capacity drops to 80%, if I understand it correct.
In total AH per $ over battery life it looks like Li is already ahead of flooded. Or so the advertisers say.

Top charging voltage affects life even more than DOD, there isn't much about this in marketing materials and I don't see programmable 115V chargers that would stop at desired adjustable 14x voltage (or switch to 13.6, same thing with Li) when it's 85-90% full. Average solar controller will do a better job.
Annual capacity loss (3-4%, more when hotter?) is usually missing from marketing materials too.

Itinerant: light weight is important to me because this is a trolling motor in a light boat. My RV is happy with 70 lbs AGM, they are not moved.

road-runner wrote:
Is it possible for something to be more than 100% less? Isn't "100% less" equal to zero?

lol.. yeah.

Almot wrote:
, but interesting insights on raw material sources (please let's not make it political).

The article doesn't mention Australia, Chile or Argentina as sources of lithium. and those are numbers 1,2 and 3 on the list of biggest sources.

I'm very happy with my 48v battery. I've mistakenly discharged it to 10% a couple times, where it shut itself down and recovered just fine. It's Lifepo4 with all the BMS built in. If you're going Li I don't recommend shortcuts or going diy cheap.

For RV applications, I would ONLY consider lithium-iron (LiFe). Less power, different charging, but MUCH SAFER]/b] !

For your never off the grid an LI battery would be wonderful, if you have deep pockets.

Assuming lead acid:

What is the longest time the RV will not have shore power? Double that time, and measure the consumption. Use a Kill-a-watt meter. From that data it would be possible to calculate the number of amp-hours needed for the bank.

Planning-

Depends on the number of amp hours of the battery. How far down does it discharge? And the percentage remaining whereupon you connect to A.C. power? Let's say you have 2 100 amp hours dual-purpose batteries. That would be fine. A single battery may discharge into the + - 50% range...a dual purpose battery would not be optimum.

INDEED!

"It is more equal"

A statement from the linked article:

"Raw Low grade lithium can be as much as 220% lower in cost than high grade refined lithium."

Is it possible for something to be more than 100% less? Isn't "100% less" equal to zero?