Why can't I get a TRUE Deep cycle battery anymore?

Yup. Informed consumers destroy less resources - like me avoiding Wal-Mart tires.

The discouraging part about recommending shortcuts and major lifespan improvements about battery management is the whining about "Are We There Yet?" Nothing could be further from reality. I consume more time daily blowing my nose. Going 10-15 years on a battery needs little interpretation as to the benefits.

Here is my routine
There are exceptions,
on the avg , I start the generator in the morning and run thru breakfast, maybe lunch
I run until charged, or charged to the point that solar can supply the needed power while also do charging
In the past year with daily full time use, the lowest morning charger on my meter was 69.x percent aka 30 percent overnight use
My last set lasted 5 years i expect this set to last longer
They are getting treated better, charged all the way to full, much more often
Since this set started out with an amp meter that counts the amp hours and displays the charge rate or discharge rate
The meter was added when the other set was several years old, until then it was watch the voltage, not amps and SOC

It has to do with passage of electrons through openings in the glass mat (I had to simplify this forgive me). Like all things electro-chemical the formula is not linear. But suffice it to say

Charge a depleted AGM slowly over weeks and months

Fail to reach 100% charge over weeks and months

The AGM will throw a Kevorkian Fit.

Toss another reason why the insanely high ampere rechargeability of a Lifeline appeals to me.

But slow and partial recharging is a cumulative degradation. It takes time and the degree of discharge makes all the difference in the world. For instance no AGM could care less if only discharged 40%. Meaning 60% remaining.

But the less than full recharge enters the picture. The longer that insufficient recharge is sustained added to the percentage missing is how that mistreatment is factored.

Perspective

Even 4-5 weeks camping while shortchanging the recharging is not going to kill an AGM. But using a Schmart Charger to recover after you get home is yet another insult to the process. Another Megawatt Moment...

landyacht318 wrote:

...
Low and slow solar only recharges, are not so good for these. They need the high amp recharge from a well depleted state every so many cycles, in my experience.

Low and slow solar is usually what we are doing.

What about telecom AGMs? (used or otherwise)

Same issue? The folks here with telecoms all seem to have generators that they daily fire up to keep them recharged, but it's not clear to me if that is really necessary or not.

When i firt got my Northtar, I was only using it as a starting battery, and could not get its resting voltage above 13v, as Northstar states is the full charged OCV.

After one deep cycle and a recharge to full at high amperage it rested at 13.06v forever after when fully charged, and had that extra insane amount of engine cranking grunt which I found shocking.

to get the most from thesse batteries, My experience is a deep cycle and high amp recharge to full to break them in to full potential, and then if deeply cycled again, it really appreciates the high amp recharge. They say 14.46 Vabs at 77F. I use 14.7v and hold it until amps taper to 0.4 or less.

Low and slow solar only recharges, are not so good for these. They need the high amp recharge from a well depleted state every so many cycles, in my experience.

T18skyguy wrote:

landyacht318 wrote:

T18skyguy wrote:
Batteries plus has a battery with a guarantee of 5 years. It is both a starting battery and a deep cycle. The man who developed the original Optima sold the company, and started a new one. Sorry I can't remember the name of the battery, but seems pretty awesome and has brass post's. It's advertised as 100% lead(so cheaper ones are not all lead?) Anyway, it's 300 bucks. Buy online and pick up in the store is 270 bucks. The name of the battery starts with an x is as much as I remember.

The X2 power battery fropm B+ is a Northstar battery.

The rumor I heard about the founding was that some guys left Enersys/ Odyssey battery to start their own battery company.

No Idea if it is true or not, but many Odyssey and Northstar batteries share the same specs, and both claim thin plate pure lead.

I am getting excellent service from a group 27 northstar AGM. In november it turns 4 years old and it has about ~615 deep cycle on it. I do use it for both engine and house. I used to have a separate house battery but once I saw I could depleted 65Ah of its 90AH capacity and it still easily started my engine, I gave up on the idea shoehorning a trojan T-1275 into my engine compartment.

The northstar AGM has been my only battery for 2 years now. Northstar warrant is 4 years free replacement, Batteries plus adds a year.

While I dual purpose my Northstar, I do not consider it a dedicated deep cycle AGM, That would be Lifeline, but so far it is performing beyond my expectations, but a lot of that is I charge it promptly to a true 100% state of charge, often.

Many dozens of cycles well below 50% too. I;ve no fear of using 80% of its total capacity, as long as I can get it full soon after and use high amps to get there

My Brother went to Batteries plus wanting to buy an Optima. They advised him against it. Said they are not what they use to be since the company was sold. So the Northstar ownership came from Optima? I don't know, just that's what they told me. I'm enjoying you guys talking batteries, you have some real knowledge here.

Replaced the Group 65 chassis battery recently with one of the X2power AGMs. Seems like a good battery. We sometimes run an inverter from the cigarette lighter so having the AGM will be good. And the battery post clamp fits better on the X2power knurled brass posts than on the old battery.

Our Diehard Platinum Group 34 house batteries are still good, they were made by Odyssey which have the same specs. The X2power Group 34 also has the same specs and we plan to go with the X2power AGM when it is time to replace.

For every attempt to do the right thing, there will be workarounds which will have the opposite of intended effect.

Make a law forcing this or that, and those making money by polluting or whatever, will goto great lengths to find away around it and often these attempts will be more destructive or have other hugely negative inpacts somewhere else.

Human nature, and today's upcoming generations are more selfish and self serving than ever, and money/max profit has never been a louder motive.

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Naio, the EARLY EPA has morphed. It had to. Read my explanation about how a government agency and employees first nails a board across its butt then desperately ever-seeks more reasons and excuses for empowerment.

The EPA needs a triple-dose of non partisan Ex-Lax. A commission to trim 80% of the fat and streamline regulations to IMPROVE protection. An oversight regulatory function.

We lost the Federal Trade Commission which made valiant efforts to protect consumers against fraud. Now we have fat-cat bureaucrats whose job it is to filter and select which objective to pursue that would gain the biggest headlines.

As for pollution and the public. A mandate is needed. Stop with the negotiable fines that are never collected at face value and send the violators to JAIL. Handcuffs, swarms of reporters taking pictures of jerks getting their head stuffed down into the back seat of a squad car. Destroy the environment - go to jail plus corporate fines PLUS individual personal fines for corporate executives responsible for deciding (criminally) to evade the law. Dump dangerous pollution? The company gets fined. The executive or employee gets their britches burned off, and then cools their heels for a stretch wearing fluorescent coveralls.

I'm mean...

Oh, I got it, actually protect of environment, not just be shake down artists. Sounds good to me.

Naio, the EARLY EPA has morphed. It had to. Read my explanation about how a government agency and employees first nails a board across its butt then desperately ever-seeks more reasons and excuses for empowerment.

The EPA needs a triple-dose of non partisan Ex-Lax. A commission to trim 80% of the fat and streamline regulations to IMPROVE protection. An oversight regulatory function.

We lost the Federal Trade Commission which made valiant efforts to protect consumers against fraud. Now we have fat-cat bureaucrats whose job it is to filter and select which objective to pursue that would gain the biggest headlines.

As for pollution and the public. A mandate is needed. Stop with the negotiable fines that are never collected at face value and send the violators to JAIL. Handcuffs, swarms of reporters taking pictures of jerks getting their head stuffed down into the back seat of a squad car. Destroy the environment - go to jail plus corporate fines PLUS individual personal fines for corporate executives responsible for deciding (criminally) to evade the law. Dump dangerous pollution? The company gets fined. The executive or employee gets their britches burned off, and then cools their heels for a stretch wearing fluorescent coveralls.

I'm mean...

Well, I agree there is a lot of flaking off and butt covering in every beaurocracy, corporate or government. But you and I both remember the days before the EPA. Imperfect protection is far better than nothing at all.

I see your snowplow and I raise you Love Canal. Where I grew up (not love canal), the miscarriage rate was astounding, due to dioxin. Better now.