Winterizing question

PhilandJoyce wrote:
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The other issue, and one I also ran into, was the placement of the system's water pump is such that introducing a by-pass valve, to allow for "pink" induction, was nearly impossible. I ended up directly connecting the tubing attaching to the pump and filled the lines that way.
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Yes, you are absolutely correct with this observation! My first camper, I had to unscrew the intake line in the pump to "pump the pink." The second camper had a quick disconnect at the pump. Pull the blue catch and the hose popped right off the pump. Attach a clear hose with the same quick disconnect and I was ready to "pump the pink". My 3rd camper, I took the time to install a valve that would simply switch between the fresh water tank inlet and the "pink" hose and just leave the "pink" hose attached all the time now. I just flip the lever and I'm ready to "pump the pink".

Manufacturers COULD install the extra valve and a 3 foot section of hose to make it easier on us. But ... it would cost them a dollar to install, and they'd charge another $100 on the price of the camper.

I'm a "newbie", so I read a bit and decided to first go the "blow out" route. BUT ..... It seemed that no matter how long I "blew" the lines, or how long I waited to repeat the process, the additional "blow" always resulted in more water.
So, I went for the "pink" route. While evaluating which kit to buy at the local Camping World, another camper was doing the same thing. Seems he only "blew" the lines last year and found some small cracked connectors at the low-points of his system. Even the tiniest amounts settled to create enough volume to create a "freeze point".
The other issue, and one I also ran into, was the placement of the system's water pump is such that introducing a by-pass valve, to allow for "pink" induction, was nearly impossible. I ended up directly connecting the tubing attaching to the pump and filled the lines that way.
You would think that manufacturers would spend the extra $2-3.00 and put a by-pass in the system as a matter of courtesy.
But, then again, after only having the RV for one season, we've found PLENTY of shortcuts they took, some cosmetic and some structural, that haven't made much sense.

AllegroD wrote:

tenbear wrote:

grampscamper wrote:

tenbear wrote:
I have always left my taps closed and have never had a problem. I think that this is one of those things that if you feel better with your taps open, then open your taps. If you feel better with them closed, then close them. If you can't decide, then open some and close some.

Maybe if I can't decide I could leave them 1/2 open.:)

Sounds good to me. :h

No! Not good at all. I think you should leave them 1/2 closed. :h

If you were only 90% sure that closing the taps was safe, would you leave them 90% closed or 90% open. Sure is getting complicated.:R Whew!

tenbear wrote:

grampscamper wrote:

tenbear wrote:
I have always left my taps closed and have never had a problem. I think that this is one of those things that if you feel better with your taps open, then open your taps. If you feel better with them closed, then close them. If you can't decide, then open some and close some.

Maybe if I can't decide I could leave them 1/2 open.:)

Sounds good to me. :h

No! Not good at all. I think you should leave them 1/2 closed. :h

Had a 93 Pace Arrow Diesel pusher for 12 years. All I did to winterize was open all faucets, the pressure relief on the HWH and opened the drain valves in the water compartment. All water would drain out of the lines AND the HWH. I only used the pink stuff in the traps. Worked w/o issue for 12 years.
The Hot water heater's cold water in line must have dropped down to the bottom of the HWH & would siphon the water out while draining. Was kinda funny to pull the drain plug & have just about a 1/4 cup of water leak out.

I did NOT have a washer/dryer in that rig. Don't forget the hoses & such behind them.

Flapper wrote:
Burst pipes are due to water trapped between two slugs of ice, not the ice itself. If there was just ice and air in the lines, the ice would compress the air, which is easy to do...

You're making one huge assumption that ice expands into the least resistance area. It doesn't it expands in all directions.

As a test put some water into an open bottle this winter and see if it "expands" out of the opening leaving the glass bottle intact. Might want to put the bottle in a box to make the broken glass cleanup easier :B.

Burst pipes are due to water trapped between two slugs of ice, not the ice itself. If there was just ice and air in the lines, the ice would compress the air, which is easy to do, and pressure would be extremely unlikely to get high enough to cause any issues. But if the expanding ice tries to compress water (which is basically incompressible!), the pressure skyrockets, and pipes burst where the water is.
So...if you've removed enough water that it is unlikely to form ice plugs, with water trapped between, then any left over that freezes does no harm.
I blow mine out, add the pink, and leave taps open, just as a belt and suspenders thing, even though I know it is being overly cautious!

Can't think of a good reason to blow out the lines if one is adding pink stuff EXCEPT for the Black Tank flush line.

Either way will work. I used the pink stuff in the cabin toilet when I put it away for the winter. One time I came back when it was -40f and it was frozen solid. I took my jackknife to it as a test and it came apart like a snow cone. Toilet was just fine in the spring.

Like a prior post stated it doesn't expand like water does when it freezes. Quote:

"Water is one of the few exceptions to this behavior. When liquid water is cooled, it contracts like one would expect until a temperature of approximately 4 degrees Celsius is reached. After that, it expands slightly until it reaches the freezing point, and then when it freezes it expands by approximately 9%."

grampscamper wrote:

tenbear wrote:
I have always left my taps closed and have never had a problem. I think that this is one of those things that if you feel better with your taps open, then open your taps. If you feel better with them closed, then close them. If you can't decide, then open some and close some.

Maybe if I can't decide I could leave them 1/2 open.:)

Sounds good to me. :h