2023 Power Stroke vs 2023 Ram Cummins Towing Challenge

Y’all will never convince 12V that there is anything better in this world or even equal to (let’s see if I get the list right) Aisin, Ram, Cummins, B&W, Amzoil…I may be missing a few.
It’s a both sides of his mouth thing. In one breath he touts only having the BEST and in the next it “works good enough so why would I change”.
In reality it’s what companies love. Extreme brand loyalty. (Not that I disagree with his taste in Trucks, hitches and oil, but it’s like a broken record stuck on repeat…)

I think the secrete to better grade braking is electric axles on the trailers. Charge the batteries on the way down and help pull
on the way up.

FishOnOne wrote:

4x4ord wrote:
^^^If it’s just about marketing I think 8 gears and a few more ponies would probably be enough for Ram customers to be happy. If it’s about actually keeping up to Ford up the hill the Cummins being a little higher revving makes enough torque at 1075 lbft but needs 500 hp at 2800 rpm to run neck and neck with the HO Powerstroke. I think adding 80 hp might not necessarily be that easy to do. It might be easy enough to just add fuel but meeting emissions and keeping the heat away may require some significant changes.

As of recent years Ram/Cummins don't like to suck hind teet, so I suspect there will be significant changes with the next gen HD trucks powertrain. The big question is when?

I guess we could turn the tables and discuss when GM and Ford will get a better exhaust brake to keep up with RAM.

I think too much time is spent one upping with the more is better. Some like 4x4 get the inline 6 does just fine with 6.

blt2ski wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

Bionic Man wrote:
The video that the troller posted originally has nothing to do with the HO engine and the Aisin transmission. It’s the old 68RFE that can’t handle the high output.

So, without question, a 2500 would perform better with a different transmission (preferably with 8 or 10 gears) that can handle more HP and TQ.

And if we’re making requests, let’s do a ZF since they are one of the best. And no, I don’t care even a little if the transmission is outsourced.

My 11 HO DRW 3.42's with 68rfe did a fine job with none of the complaints from others towing 30k combined. Probably because I ran the HE!! out of it for the first hundred miles, trained it well. Nice firm shifts! The only issue was getting the load rolling on grade. If it had 4.10's I would probably still own it pulling 35k+.

Ron,
You have just described the positive for the 8 and 10 sp transmissions. You won't need 4.10s with a 6 so to move 35k lbs. Because the 10 sp that Ford and GM use has a 4.56 iirc 1st gear vs you 3.5x. reality is, a 10 sp will have an overall low, lower than a 4.10 geared rig, yet give you the low rpm freeways gears.
My 6sp 4.3v6 has more torque hitting the ground than ANY of my 4.10 gear 4 so autos. I have a 4.10 in first, instead of a 2.48 in 1st, I can multiply more with my ra at 3.42.
This is what your missing with a 6 so vs a 10 sp.
My 6sp is better than my 4 so autos, not as good as the 8 so at 4.3 in 1st, 10 sp is about 4.5x. that lower gear you want for startup is in the transmission!
Ye Ford4x is correct, you may not tow much faster up hills on a freeway grade, UNLESS you can get more HP and or torque to the rear wheels.
Marty

I don't need lower gears than what the AISIN-3.42's deliver, with that combo I do have an extra highway gear. I also consider the dependability of the AISIN.

I kinda feel only a few think your statement is true. Because of just a handful seem to really care. retired from rving chevman. 2005 duramax dually is now a garage queen.

4x4ord wrote:
^^^If it’s just about marketing I think 8 gears and a few more ponies would probably be enough for Ram customers to be happy. If it’s about actually keeping up to Ford up the hill the Cummins being a little higher revving makes enough torque at 1075 lbft but needs 500 hp at 2800 rpm to run neck and neck with the HO Powerstroke. I think adding 80 hp might not necessarily be that easy to do. It might be easy enough to just add fuel but meeting emissions and keeping the heat away may require some significant changes.

As of recent years Ram/Cummins don't like to suck hind teet, so I suspect there will be significant changes with the next gen HD trucks powertrain. The big question is when?

^^^If it’s just about marketing I think 8 gears and a few more ponies would probably be enough for Ram customers to be happy. If it’s about actually keeping up to Ford up the hill the Cummins being a little higher revving makes enough torque at 1075 lbft but needs 500 hp at 2800 rpm to run neck and neck with the HO Powerstroke. I think adding 80 hp might not necessarily be that easy to do. It might be easy enough to just add fuel but meeting emissions and keeping the heat away may require some significant changes.

Cummins12V98 wrote:

Bionic Man wrote:
The video that the troller posted originally has nothing to do with the HO engine and the Aisin transmission. It’s the old 68RFE that can’t handle the high output.

So, without question, a 2500 would perform better with a different transmission (preferably with 8 or 10 gears) that can handle more HP and TQ.

And if we’re making requests, let’s do a ZF since they are one of the best. And no, I don’t care even a little if the transmission is outsourced.

My 11 HO DRW 3.42's with 68rfe did a fine job with none of the complaints from others towing 30k combined. Probably because I ran the HE!! out of it for the first hundred miles, trained it well. Nice firm shifts! The only issue was getting the load rolling on grade. If it had 4.10's I would probably still own it pulling 35k+.

Ron,
You have just described the positive for the 8 and 10 sp transmissions. You won't need 4.10s with a 6 so to move 35k lbs. Because the 10 sp that Ford and GM use has a 4.56 iirc 1st gear vs you 3.5x. reality is, a 10 sp will have an overall low, lower than a 4.10 geared rig, yet give you the low rpm freeways gears.
My 6sp 4.3v6 has more torque hitting the ground than ANY of my 4.10 gear 4 so autos. I have a 4.10 in first, instead of a 2.48 in 1st, I can multiply more with my ra at 3.42.
This is what your missing with a 6 so vs a 10 sp.
My 6sp is better than my 4 so autos, not as good as the 8 so at 4.3 in 1st, 10 sp is about 4.5x. that lower gear you want for startup is in the transmission!
Ye Ford4x is correct, you may not tow much faster up hills on a freeway grade, UNLESS you can get more HP and or torque to the rear wheels.
Marty

Bionic Man wrote:
The video that the troller posted originally has nothing to do with the HO engine and the Aisin transmission. It’s the old 68RFE that can’t handle the high output.

So, without question, a 2500 would perform better with a different transmission (preferably with 8 or 10 gears) that can handle more HP and TQ.

And if we’re making requests, let’s do a ZF since they are one of the best. And no, I don’t care even a little if the transmission is outsourced.

My 11 HO DRW 3.42's with 68rfe did a fine job with none of the complaints from others towing 30k combined. Probably because I ran the HE!! out of it for the first hundred miles, trained it well. Nice firm shifts! The only issue was getting the load rolling on grade. If it had 4.10's I would probably still own it pulling 35k+.

4x4ord wrote:
^^^And if you're happy with 6 gears behind your 2015 Cummins you'd be ecstatic with 6 gears behind a new HO Cummins. Your 2015 is probably only making about 345 HP at 2200 rpm so someone could at least argue that a 2015 would benefit from more gears. The new HO engine will make more like 415 HP at 2200 rpm .... more gears certainly isn't going to make it pull a hill any faster. It might be nice to have another overdrive gear for running empty though.

It's nice you understand all this, and you seem to be the only one!!! Like I said 3.42's would net me a touch better highway mileage. 3.42's are basically same rpm in 5th as my 4.10's in 6th, 1,750.