Ford: Better towing acceleration, better performance, better fuel economy, less squatRam: Better exhaust brake, good ride quality.Looks like the 6 speed vs 10 speed discussion has been exposed in this video.Enjoy...LinkThis evaluation was performed by a Ram owner.

Ah, a somewhat real world YouTube video. I did watch most of it, and was pretty good.

He's kind of full of poo. He claims the reason the Ram didn't want to pull the hill better was because the 6 speed transmission would have caused the Cummins to over rev if it had downshifted from 5th to 4th. The 68 RFE could have dropped to 4th gear no problem... That said, I like the transmission programming just the way it is. I would rather climb the hill at 105 km/hr, be slightly under the cruise control set point, and at 2000 rpm vs downshifting to 4th and accelerating to 2560 rpm to just to maintain 110 km/hr. If having an F150 pass me were to bother me I could always manually select 4th. He says the Cummins has all sorts of low end torque, but, in reality it was the lack of low end torque that prevented him from climbing the hill with the ease that the Powerstroke was able to accomplish the climb with. I think the Powerstroke climbed the hill at 110 km/hr and about 1900 rpm.

Yes I thought there was some room to downshift as well, but I would have preferred it to downshift to give a little more power to work with going up that hill.

At my age(will complete my 8th decade on the planet next June) I am slowly deciding that being the first to the top of the hill is not that important anymore.

Me Again wrote:At my age(will complete my 8th decade on the planet next June) I am slowly deciding that being the first to the top of the hill is not that important anymore.Nothing wrong with that...

2023 Power Stroke vs 2023 Ram Cummins Towing Challenge

4x4ord
Explorer III
Jul 27, 2023
Cummins12V98 wrote:
It's just that he basically was bad mouthing something he should not have. "Bad transmission it needs more gears", it has gears he could have used them.

The standard output Cummins doesn't have the kind of torque rise that the high output does. More gears behind the Standard Output would help it perform a little better.

As presently tuned, the HO wouldn't benefit much at all by adding gears. If they ever put more gears behind the High Output Cummins they will probably flatten out the torque curve a little bit as well. By doing so they will increase the peak HP some to help it compete a little better with GM and Ford.
blt2ski
Moderator
Jul 27, 2023
Huntindog wrote:
Cummins12V98 wrote:
It's just that he basically was bad mouthing something he should not have. "Bad transmission it needs more gears", it has gears he could have used them.

Someday the Ram will have more gears as well. Then these conversations will be moot.
My 2001 Dmax had a 5 speed, the 2011 a 6 speed. and the 2020 a 10 speed. Each tranny performed better than it's predessor.
You will agree once you have one

I agree re the more gears is nice! I remember the TH400 POS 3 sp auto in some GM's I had. The NV4500 better than the TH400, a bit better than the SM 4 sp. The 700R4 better than the 4L80E. The 05 5sp ally not bad. My current 6 sp in my 1500 is the best GM auto I've driven. DO have to admit, the 10 sp in the work transit van is the best so far. BUT, dare I say for how I use, don't need the 4.10 gears. The 3.55 I had in the previous 6sp should be better. Probably gain 2 mpg or there about too. I really don't need to be turning 2000 rpm at 60. 1600 was fine with the 6 sp auto transit at 60.
Best pulling transmission has been the Spicer 7sp emanual in my Navistar. The NV 4500 in my 96 6.5td was a good setup too with 4.10's.

Transmissions in general, keep getting better and better! As do engines, and the vehicles themselves generally speaking.

Marty
Huntindog
Explorer
Jul 27, 2023
Cummins12V98 wrote:
It's just that he basically was bad mouthing something he should not have. "Bad transmission it needs more gears", it has gears he could have used them.

Someday the Ram will have more gears as well. Then these conversations will be moot.
My 2001 Dmax had a 5 speed, the 2011 a 6 speed. and the 2020 a 10 speed. Each tranny performed better than it's predessor.
You will agree once you have one
Cummins12V98
Explorer III
Jul 26, 2023
It's just that he basically was bad mouthing something he should not have. "Bad transmission it needs more gears", it has gears he could have used them.
4x4ord
Explorer III
Jul 26, 2023
^^^^The guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about. The 68RFE could have dropped to 4th gear at 2000 rpm. That would have caused the engine to rev to 2440 rpm where it would have made enough power to quickly get up to speed…. then it could have upshifted back to 5th where it may or may not have been able to maintain 110 km per hour.
So, instead, it stayed in fifth at about 3 mph under the cruise control set point and slowly gained speed. I don’t see that as a bad thing.
Cummins12V98
Explorer III
Jul 26, 2023
4x4ord wrote:
Cummins12V98 wrote:
4x4ord wrote:
^^^You can call it programming or whatever but it comes down to power. I don't know what grade the hill was that he was pulling but to pull a 14,000 lb trailer up a steep hill at 110 kph takes a lot of power. He was comparing a 385 HP Ram to a 500 HP Ford.... and he says it didn't pull as well on account of the 6 speed transmission,:S.

OK, explain why he had only 22psi boost?

I think he said 24 psi boost at one point. At 2000 rpm the standard output Cummins is not tuned to produce a whole lot of torque ….. no more than the 850 lbft peak torque it makes at 1800 rpm. Does the Cummins need more than 24 psi boost to make 320 hp at 2000 rpm?

The thing is the standard output Cummins is only able to produce about 320 Hp at 2000 rpm and he’s comparing that to a high output Powerstroke that should be able to produce about 420 Hp at 1900 rpm.

Supposedly if it downshifted it would be redline??? I highly doubt that from to 2k to 3.2k.

Something does not sound right about all this. I am NOT disputing the FORD has much more power but.....
4x4ord
Explorer III
Jul 26, 2023
Cummins12V98 wrote:
4x4ord wrote:
^^^You can call it programming or whatever but it comes down to power. I don't know what grade the hill was that he was pulling but to pull a 14,000 lb trailer up a steep hill at 110 kph takes a lot of power. He was comparing a 385 HP Ram to a 500 HP Ford.... and he says it didn't pull as well on account of the 6 speed transmission,:S.

OK, explain why he had only 22psi boost?

I think he said 24 psi boost at one point. At 2000 rpm the standard output Cummins is not tuned to produce a whole lot of torque ….. no more than the 850 lbft peak torque it makes at 1800 rpm. Does the Cummins need more than 24 psi boost to make 320 hp at 2000 rpm?

The thing is the standard output Cummins is only able to produce about 320 Hp at 2000 rpm and he’s comparing that to a high output Powerstroke that should be able to produce about 420 Hp at 1900 rpm.
Grit_dog
Navigator
Jul 25, 2023
blt2ski wrote:
FishOnOne wrote:
Me Again wrote:
At my age(will complete my 8th decade on the planet next June) I am slowly deciding that being the first to the top of the hill is not that important anymore.

Nothing wrong with that...

Considering how many times I have stalled out in first gear blowing up transmissions thru the last 40 years of towing.......I'm happy to get to the top of the hill at any speed! Especially the steeper grades here in puget sound that get upwards of 30% in grade.

Being to top heavy in power vs nothing at the bottom is not good either. Best if the truck you drive has the proper low gearing for low speed maneuvers, and HP for freeway hauling when and if you do a lot of that. Otherwise, you have the wrong tool!

Marty

But your experiences, at least everything you’ve communicated here, have been solely with much weaker all around powertrains. And virtually antiques by todays standards.
FishOnOne
Nomad
Jul 25, 2023
JaxDad wrote:
Me Again wrote:
At my age(will complete my 8th decade on the planet next June) I am slowly deciding that being the first to the top of the hill is not that important anymore.

As a kid learning to drive trucks one of the very first thing the ‘old guys’ taught me was “Don’t chase the governor! It’s hard on the truck & the driver.”. Those words have served me very well over the decades since.

Ontario is pretty flat in this area, just some slow rolling hills and pretty gentle grades, but this is such a massive place that if you venture further out you certainly get into some serious grades.

Generally the only ‘mountains’ that I have to run through, although I can mostly go around them, are the Appalachians on the frequent north / south runs.

In my own rig I’ve found the ‘sweet spot’ is about 68 mph (110 km/h) and if I can hit the bottom of the hill at that speed or a smidge more it makes a huge difference in how much speed bleeds of in climbing the grade. I figure everyone else is in the same boat and we’ll all get the lost speed back on the downhill run after cresting.

Or don't lug the engine
Bionic_Man
Explorer
Jul 25, 2023
The RAM 2500 is down considerably on power vs the other two 2500 diesels. Not sure why it would be a surprise that it would be outperformed in a towing test.

RAM does need an upgrade in transmissions so that they can put the HO engine in their 2500s.