08 F450 6.4L Wrench Light on?

Fish:
I like to believe that dealership mechanics have the best and most up to date training, access to the most technical data and have the correct tools and equipment. From what I have seen it is that way sometimes. The other times they do have the tools/equipment but don't know how to use them, or trouble shoot. They are lost the art of diagnosis and if it isn't spelled out in a TSB many times they don't know how to address known issues without replacing the whole component (Sir you need a new engine!). If the shop does bad work the dealership is still propped up with business from sales, parts, financing, etc.

Small shops on the other hand stay in business with repair work off of referrals or reputation so they either swim or sink. Many diesel specialty shops do the work that other shops can't or won't and since they work on the typical issues more often than the just oil changes, light bulbs and belt changes they are very good at it and have learned/formulated their own short cuts and knowing that they won't be paid for a callback they strive to make it work the first time.
I do use dealership for some work that needs to be done esp for the Hybrid and I give them first shot at diesel work sometimes but when their answers/diagnosis are vague and/or their quoted hours are above book I take it elsewhere. I feel they either not sure how/what to repair or just want to rip me off.

The owner of the shop drove it for awhile in vary traffic conditions with the scanner and allowed the truck to sit overnight and again checked the coolant level. I paid 1590 for more work that Ford was going to do at 3700 so I am definitely happier and my wallet prefers the shop. I drove it home today with no issues. On a side note I am amazed that this gets better mpgs on city streets (13-16 mpg) than the highway (11 mpg) but guess that is from the rear gear (4.88).

FishOnOne wrote:

rowekmr wrote:
Well I can now honestly I really appreciate Ford dealership service tactics. If it wasn't for their ridiculous inflation of shop hours and mark up of services I would not have done a search and found a shop I used before that is well versed in the powerstrokes.

He actually drove my truck with a smaller scanner to read actual road values and also used the IDS software back at the shop to see the snap shot of the values when the wrench illuminated. Turned out there was a 30F delta (highest) between the oil and coolant temps. To change my oil cooler he didn't raise the cab, checked my valve train and found 3 out of spec that he retorqued, bore scoped my EGR coolers (no significant blockage) and performed the flush before the oil cooler was installed to remove some of the gel that was in my coolant. He used a vacuum process to put in the new Ford Gold so as to eliminate/minimize air pockets. He also checked the computer software and performed a few updates including a dash update that will provide dash notification when in progress. He also said the newer software limits the regen cycles to higher (highway) speeds. He will let the coolant "cold soak" and double check the coolant level tomorrow before and after he drives to insure all is within spec.

I feel much better with his diagnosis and processes and believe the truck will have a good bill of health when I pick it up. All the weak points have been checked incl the front cover, oil/EGR coolers, valvetrain and coolant. It goes to show that while much of the older powerstrokes had issues because of bad design and improper maintenance some of the owner's woes came from dealerships that were not properly trained/staffed that either charged way to much or didn't fix the problem.

Thanks for the follow up... I'm a firm believer that the certified techs are typically better equipped and trained to perform repairs on your vehicle. Yes you will probably pay more, but if the vehicle is fixed correctly that means no more repeat visits and additional repair bills and hassle.

My cousin is a diesel mechanic and works for a Ford/Chrysler dealer since '93 and that dealer has invested hundreds of hours of training in him.

I agree that there are some techs at Ford dealerships that are good and actually care, however they are few and far between. I have had many bad dealer experiences but one of the worst was when I had the coolant changed on my 2003 6.0L and I asked them to change the lower rad hose as well because I noticed it had been rubbing on the steering box. I picked up the truck and we were leaving the next day on vacation. I'm not sure what made me look but I decided to have a look at that hose and I'm sure glad I did. It was installed such that it was right up against the power steering pump pulley; I looked at the situation a bit closer and with it being an OEM hose it was marked RAD and PUMP. It had been installed backwards! If I hadn't looked I wouldn't have made it 50 miles down the road before it rubbed through.

I also had a surging issue with that truck that Ford never could figure out. I was lucky enough to find a local aftermarket diesel shop that knew the 6.0L well and I had them do an EGR delete, install a regulated fuel return system and do a bunch of upgrades for a reasonable price. There have been a bunch more shops open up here in the greater Vancouver, BC area that specialize in Powerstroke repairs and upgrades. So overall I'm in the independent shop camp too.

Please let us know how the truck is when you pick it up.

rowekmr wrote:
Well I can now honestly I really appreciate Ford dealership service tactics. If it wasn't for their ridiculous inflation of shop hours and mark up of services I would not have done a search and found a shop I used before that is well versed in the powerstrokes.

He actually drove my truck with a smaller scanner to read actual road values and also used the IDS software back at the shop to see the snap shot of the values when the wrench illuminated. Turned out there was a 30F delta (highest) between the oil and coolant temps. To change my oil cooler he didn't raise the cab, checked my valve train and found 3 out of spec that he retorqued, bore scoped my EGR coolers (no significant blockage) and performed the flush before the oil cooler was installed to remove some of the gel that was in my coolant. He used a vacuum process to put in the new Ford Gold so as to eliminate/minimize air pockets. He also checked the computer software and performed a few updates including a dash update that will provide dash notification when in progress. He also said the newer software limits the regen cycles to higher (highway) speeds. He will let the coolant "cold soak" and double check the coolant level tomorrow before and after he drives to insure all is within spec.

I feel much better with his diagnosis and processes and believe the truck will have a good bill of health when I pick it up. All the weak points have been checked incl the front cover, oil/EGR coolers, valvetrain and coolant. It goes to show that while much of the older powerstrokes had issues because of bad design and improper maintenance some of the owner's woes came from dealerships that were not properly trained/staffed that either charged way to much or didn't fix the problem.

Thanks for the follow up... I'm a firm believer that the certified techs are typically better equipped and trained to perform repairs on your vehicle. Yes you will probably pay more, but if the vehicle is fixed correctly that means no more repeat visits and additional repair bills and hassle.

My cousin is a diesel mechanic and works for a Ford/Chrysler dealer since '93 and that dealer has invested hundreds of hours of training in him.

Well I can now honestly I really appreciate Ford dealership service tactics. If it wasn't for their ridiculous inflation of shop hours and mark up of services I would not have done a search and found a shop I used before that is well versed in the powerstrokes.

He actually drove my truck with a smaller scanner to read actual road values and also used the IDS software back at the shop to see the snap shot of the values when the wrench illuminated. Turned out there was a 30F delta (highest) between the oil and coolant temps. To change my oil cooler he didn't raise the cab, checked my valve train and found 3 out of spec that he retorqued, bore scoped my EGR coolers (no significant blockage) and performed the flush before the oil cooler was installed to remove some of the gel that was in my coolant. He used a vacuum process to put in the new Ford Gold so as to eliminate/minimize air pockets. He also checked the computer software and performed a few updates including a dash update that will provide dash notification when in progress. He also said the newer software limits the regen cycles to higher (highway) speeds. He will let the coolant "cold soak" and double check the coolant level tomorrow before and after he drives to insure all is within spec.

I feel much better with his diagnosis and processes and believe the truck will have a good bill of health when I pick it up. All the weak points have been checked incl the front cover, oil/EGR coolers, valvetrain and coolant. It goes to show that while much of the older powerstrokes had issues because of bad design and improper maintenance some of the owner's woes came from dealerships that were not properly trained/staffed that either charged way to much or didn't fix the problem.

Thanks for the update. For some reason I thought the oil cooler replacement on the 6.4L was less involved than that but I may be thinking of the 6.7L. I believe the Ford recommended flushes are to remove any scale build up in the system as well as the casting sand so I think it would be worthwhile to do even if you have someone else replace the cooler.

I truly am glad I got away from this type of scenario. I loved my Ford trucks but it was exactly this type of expensive repair that drove me away from them. And sadly there's so many more common things that they are prone to.

In any case I wish you well with the repair. Please let us know how it turns out.

After listening to the service writer echo some of what his mechanic said I just didn't feel comfortable letting them do the repair. They wanted more than book time yet didn't really justify it to me so I took it to a mechanic that used to do work for me awhile back who does a lot of Ford (and Chev) diesel work. He has all the Ford IDS equipment and does a lot of fleet work. I believe (hope) something that someone does day in and out they tend to be more proficient in it. I think the high prices Ford charges dissuade many truck owners out of warranty so the procedure isn't done too often hence the mechanic needing more hours to do what is necessary and/or just greed. My buddy's shop will diagnose and troubleshoot to make sure it is the oil cooler. Not to mention he charges less than half the price.

To replace the $300 oil cooler you have to remove a lot of engine components and many like to remove the cab. It is a 16-20 hr job depending on who you ask. The Ford wanted 27 and that included 2 intensive flushes that had to do to be able to warranty the oil cooler and my requested fuel filter change and HFCM inspection/cleaning

I have found out these oil coolers plug not only because of bad design but from oil contamination, leftover sand casting, and mixing of coolants or improper coolant change intervals. I am glad the oil cooler and EGR cooler are in series unlike the 6.0L. Besides the regeneration sucking fuel I like the smoothness and power potential of these 6.4L compared to the 6.0L. I can understand people's gripes about the Ford/Int'l buying a expensive new truck and repeatedly having breakdowns/expensive repairs. From my side though I am buying them cheaper and having the hindsight of modifications, upgraded parts/procedures and in my case using shops that specialize in the known issues. If I needed a bone stock reliable truck for a business work it wouldn't be this. I got about 11K towing miles on the 2015 F250 and haven't had one issue yet so I think Ford did make a better mousetrap this time. It is so quiet/smooth I forget it is diesel and worry about misfueling it out of habit because I drive other gas vehicles.

blofgren wrote:

rowekmr wrote:
Thanks everyone most were right. I took it to the Ford and they said it had a EOT/ECT correlation code meaning the oil cooler is restricted. Will get it changed now just not sure if this Ford will do it.

If you plan on keeping the truck for any length of time I would recommend going aftermarket with something such as a Bulletproof cooler. In any case, be sure you do the recommended Ford coolant clean out and flush procedure to avoid plugging up the new cooler. It's quite hard to believe that Ford/Navistar didn't learn anything from the 6.0L oil/EGR cooler debacle and design a system right from the get go for the 6.4L that would be much more reliable :h. I know you prefer Ford (and I did as well having owned both a 7.3L and 6.0L diesel over the last 20 years) but it is because of this sort of thing that I no longer have a Ford diesel.

I'm not sure what is involved in replacing the cooler on a 6.4L but I wish you best of luck with it.

rowekmr wrote:
Thanks everyone most were right. I took it to the Ford and they said it had a EOT/ECT correlation code meaning the oil cooler is restricted. Will get it changed now just not sure if this Ford will do it.

If you plan on keeping the truck for any length of time I would recommend going aftermarket with something such as a Bulletproof cooler. In any case, be sure you do the recommended Ford coolant clean out and flush procedure to avoid plugging up the new cooler. It's quite hard to believe that Ford/Navistar didn't learn anything from the 6.0L oil/EGR cooler debacle and design a system right from the get go for the 6.4L that would be much more reliable :h. I know you prefer Ford (and I did as well having owned both a 7.3L and 6.0L diesel over the last 20 years) but it is because of this sort of thing that I no longer have a Ford diesel.

I'm not sure what is involved in replacing the cooler on a 6.4L but I wish you best of luck with it.

itguy08 wrote:

blofgren wrote:

I'm sure the 2006 E-450 at my work would have put a small business under. $32k in repairs in 2 years which does not include numerous tow bills for random no starts. A small business would also have to think about lost revenue while the truck was in the shop, which was several weeks in total. Almost every imaginable thing has gone wrong with that truck, some more than once.

A new E450 is what, $50k if you tick every box? If you're spending $10k/yr in repairs + downtime + lost business, the smart owner would ditch that and buy something more reliable.

Yep, that's why there is a new F-550 with a V-10 on order. If we didn't have a purchasing contract with Ford it would have been a Ram 5500 with a Cummins as per our fleet manager. I think he's had enough of the Ford diesels because the repair bills are obscene. We have 3 2012 Ram 5500's with Cummins and the issues with them have been very minor.

By the way that E-450 has averaged $16k per year for the last 2 years. Pretty poor for a vehicle with only around 40k miles on it. Oh, and one of the issues was that the "bulletproof" Torqueshift transmission grenaded and required a complete rebuild.

blofgren wrote:

I'm sure the 2006 E-450 at my work would have put a small business under. $32k in repairs in 2 years which does not include numerous tow bills for random no starts. A small business would also have to think about lost revenue while the truck was in the shop, which was several weeks in total. Almost every imaginable thing has gone wrong with that truck, some more than once.

A new E450 is what, $50k if you tick every box? If you're spending $10k/yr in repairs + downtime + lost business, the smart owner would ditch that and buy something more reliable.

Thanks everyone most were right. I took it to the Ford and they said it had a EOT/ECT correlation code meaning the oil cooler is restricted. Will get it changed now just not sure if this Ford will do it.