2014 V6 1500 shootout

Wow, I subbed to this thread a couple days ago, and then had not looked again. I come back and this whole thing seems to have gone off the tracks !!

As to the whole idea of using one of these smaller engine trucks as "a tow vehicle", here is my take on it: right tool for the job ?

I drive a 2006 Frontier, V6 4.0L gas, six speed manual 4WD crewcab as a daily driver. This is a solid 19 to 21 mpg vehicle in daily non towing use. I pull my sub-4000 pound 19' funfinder with it, or my similar weight bumper pull horse trailer, at about 10 to 13 mpg. This truck, overall, is the "right tool for the job for me", for these uses.

We also have a F350 PS diesel dually ( "kelly's kowgirl kadillac" ) that we use for the 33' horse trailer or the equipment trailer. It too is the right tool for the job, but as a daily driver it is simply not as convenient or economic as the gas Frontier,( in spite of it using a fuel with higher BTU content per unit. ;) )
And yes, I understand all about thermal efficiency and BTU content of various fuel ( and the all important, correct stoichiometric ratio, as well as optimal compression ratio for different fuel types ).....but honestly, the bottom line is, does a given vehicle meet the needs of intended use, and can it deliver economic operation while doing so ?

I would submit that for many of the campers that folks pull, a nice V6 powered truck is a good choice. Others may need more truck, more engine, more gearing.

In an overall sense, one needs to look at the whole picture. Cost to buy, operate ( all costs, fuel, maint, taxes, insurance, etc ) and what is it's residual value at time of sale.

travelnutz wrote:
Only a race fanatik gearhead living in a knowledge vacuum would mention methanol and nitromethane fuel in a tow vehicle thread. The fuel used is "gasoline" or "diesel" in any production tow vehicle. Tow vehicle's engines do NOT have 8,000 to 10,000 plus revving engines that work best with a very quick instant burn fuel being used due to having such a short time duration of piston downtravel. Only a quick instant flash would be useful or unburned fuel and flames would exit the cylinder and that's wasted energy. A very quick instant flash burn time has low BTU content as it's an instant very short "bang" and it's all done/consumed.

However, gasoline has a much longer burn time and higher BTU's released and is suitable for a lower RPM engine with enough time for the fuel to burn fully and expand the hot gasses which is increased energy driving the piston downward. Diesel has even a longer burn time to utilize it's higher contained BTU's for even more thermal expansion of the gasses during the piston downward travel in the slow revving engine. The longer the burn time, the higher BTU's released as thermal expansion energy.

Again, this thread is about the production engines used in vehicles for towing or load carrying vehicles, NOT racing engines.

Have it your way:

Lets talk about E85 and gasoline then.

Gasoline= around 116,000 BTU's / gallon.

E85= Around 82,000 BTU's / gallon.

You said wrote:
The biggie is that gasoline has an 11%-12% lower btu content per measure than diesel fuel so your gas engine starts out with a big disadvantage and it increases from there as the RPM's increase.

So what is going to put out more power? E85 or gasoline? According to your above post the gasoline should because it has more BTU's. If so, it should be easy to put up a dyno run proving it. Have at it. :B

Or are you going to now tell me that nobody uses E85 for towing? LOL

Only a race fanatik gearhead living in a knowledge vacuum would mention methanol and nitromethane fuel in a tow vehicle thread. The fuel used is "gasoline" or "diesel" in any production tow vehicle. Tow vehicle's engines do NOT have 8,000 to 10,000 plus revving engines that work best with a very quick instant burn fuel being used due to having such a short time duration of piston downtravel. Only a quick instant flash would be useful or unburned fuel and flames would exit the cylinder and that's wasted energy. A very quick instant flash burn time has low BTU content as it's an instant very short "bang" and it's all done/consumed.

However, gasoline has a much longer burn time and higher BTU's released and is suitable for a lower RPM engine with enough time for the fuel to burn fully and expand the hot gasses which is increased energy driving the piston downward. Diesel has even a longer burn time to utilize it's higher contained BTU's for even more thermal expansion of the gasses during the piston downward travel in the slow revving engine. The longer the burn time, the higher BTU's released as thermal expansion energy.

Again, this thread is about the production engines used in vehicles for towing or load carrying vehicles, NOT racing engines.

depending on the type of induction, specific fuels are required.... for example, my truck runs 87 octane and my turbo mustang runs 93 unleaded or C16 race gas depending on the tune..if i was to run 87 octane with boost i would detonate and pop a head gasket or worse... higher octane fuels dont burn as hot and control detonation.. so, while higher octane fuels arent as volitile, they offer a larger window for more agressive timing, fuel mapping and forced induction level IN A PROPERLY CONFIGURED ENGINE... THE SAME CAN BE SAID IN A NATURALLY ASPIRATED ENGINE WITH A SPECIFIC FUEL

.....in other words.. all fuels have the potential to make more power over the other... it all depends on if the motor is setup for the specific fuel or not...it doesnt specifically correlate with octane content or BTU's... most fuels at the gas pump are close to 114,000 BTU's... this does not include diesel or Ethanol..

ROTFLMAO.

You need to tell John Force he is stupid for running only 47,000/ gallon BTU fuel when he can run 116,000/ gallon BTU fuel. He can run over twice the BTU fuel maybe he can go over twice as fast!!

Just think how much faster he can go!! Dang!! Maybe 1.50 in the 1000 foot if he ran gasoline. After all, that gasoline has way more BTU's then that stupid nitro he is running.

Like I said; quit beating around the bush and show me where a higher BTU fuel makes more power. Show me. No personal attacks. Just link me up to a back to back dyno run where the higher BTU fuel (gasoline) puts out more power than methanol or nitro.

I will even go with E85 and gasoline.

Let me start.
Here is a little reading for you. :B

I changed nothing about my BTU energy post. Facts are facts whether you like it or not.

My last with you as you do not understand the effects of explosion and heat expansion from various BTU energy contents. The more heat (BTU's) released in the explosion gives more energy. The harder the expanding hot gasses contained within the cylinder, the higher the force on the piston driving it downward. Heat causes expansion and more heat creates more expansion. Do you not understand chemistry and Physics Laws?

my 3.7 V6 tows fine, does exactly what i want it to do, i can run down the highway in 6th gear with a loaded trailer and still get 12mpg or better.... in the mountains pulling my enclosed car hauler and my Turbo mustang, my v6 F-150 pulls better than my 4.6 Expedition ever did....my truck has a 7,000 rpm redline..towing o never see it nor do i see constantly running at 5,000 rpm like some say either.... if you keep your towing weight realistic you wont have to rev the hell out of your smaller motor...

at the end of the day, if your tow rig does what you want it to do, it doesnt matter what anyone else thinks.... its 2014 and it doesnt take a large displacement motor to tow anymore.....new more efficient motors make more power and do it with better fuel economy.. we can crunch numbers all day long and argue what is better... yes, a diesel would be the all around better choice for towing but im sorry, i dont need it for my 4800lb TT....

if you like your truck, thats all that matters....

You were talking power and since proven wrong you switch to a blurb about fuel mileage. I want to talk about the first subject you picked.......power.

Show me where any fuel with more BTU's can put out more power. Go on, show me and I will believe you. :B

Now, pick your fuel and lets see who puts out the most power.

Copied and pasted:

Energy efficiency terminology

Energy efficiency is similar to fuel efficiency but the input is usually in units of energy such as British thermal units (BTU), megajoules (MJ), gigajoules (GJ), kilocalories (kcal), or kilowatt-hours (kW·h). The inverse of "energy efficiency" is "energy intensity", or the amount of input energy required for a unit of output such as MJ/passenger-km (of passenger transport), BTU/ton-mile (of freight transport, for long/short/metric tons), GJ/t (for steel production), BTU/(kW·h) (for electricity generation), or litres/100 km (of vehicle travel). Litres per 100 km is also a measure of "energy intensity" where the input is measured by the amount of fuel and the output is measured by the distance travelled. For example: Fuel economy in automobiles.

Given a heat value of a fuel, it would be trivial to convert from fuel units (such as litres of gasoline) to energy units (such as MJ) and conversely. But there are two problems with comparisons made using energy units:
There are two different heat values for any hydrogen-containing fuel which can differ by several percent (see below).
When comparing transportation energy costs, it must be remembered that a kilowatt hour of electric energy may require an amount of fuel with heating value of 2 or 3 kilowatt hours to produce it.

Energy content of fuel

The specific energy content of a fuel is the heat energy obtained when a certain quantity is burned (such as a gallon, litre, kilogram). It is sometimes called the heat of combustion. There exists two different values of specific heat energy for the same batch of fuel. One is the high (or gross) heat of combustion and the other is the low (or net) heat of combustion. The high value is obtained when, after the combustion, the water in the exhaust is in liquid form. For the low value, the exhaust has all the water in vapor form (steam). Since water vapor gives up heat energy when it changes from vapor to liquid, the liquid water value is larger since it includes the latent heat of vaporization of water. The difference between the high and low values is significant, about 8 or 9%. This accounts for most of the apparent discrepancy in the heat value of gasoline. In the U.S. (and the table below) the high heat values have traditionally been used, but in many other countries, the low heat values are commonly used.

nuff said!

Horsepower and torque are intrinsically connected. I don't know why some on this forum get their underwear all balled up about the semantics. If torque was the sole indicator of power and the ability to move an object how does a vehicle accelerate if pushed beyond the maximum torque rpm? Torque is falling but HP is rising, same gear but still accelerating.